John ~ One more thought came to me after I hit the send button; so this
really is a segue to my earlier longer response. It regards specifically
your - which is, I very much agree, the correct -- assertion that without
the multi-generational process of Darwinian selection evolution cannot
occur, and that multi-generational epigenetic hereditary changes are not
therefore examples of evolution in and of themselves. I agree, Darwinian
selection is the crux of evolution; hereditary transmission alone is not an
example of evolution; so in this I stand corrected - I had originally
suggested the case of great grandmother's smoking habit being epigenetically
linked to the asthma in their 3rd generation progeny as an example of
Lamarckian or perhaps less controversial less baggage burdened term
Epigenetic evolution.

Of course - and this is the extra point I want to make -- this same quite
correct assertion also applies to changes in an organism's DNA as well -
whether introduced by random mutation or directed genetic engineering.
Individual organisms within a population may inherit mutated/altered DNA,
but evolution does not occur in this scenario either, until generations of
evolutionary pressure have selected for the most well adapted individuals
(more specifically, at least, those well adapted in terms of being able to
survive long enough and compete well enough in order to wide cast their
genetic information J).

-Chris

 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 7:56 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong

 

On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

 

> some feel Epigenetics should only refer to the actual molecular mechanisms
(such as DNA methylation and histone modification) that alter the underlying
gene expression; I find this restrictive and use epigenetics to also
describe inheritance of changes in the expression of genes. There appears to
be increasing evidence that points to epigenetic inheritance 


Yes, but that also means that epigenetic inheritance is fundamentally less
important than the traditional sort. If you don't have the gene then you
just don't have it and that's all there is to it, but if you have the gene
but it's not expressed because of one simple methyl group then one of your
sperm could lack those 4 atoms (CH3) and your offspring, or his offspring,
could inherit the fully functional complex gene even if there was no sign of
its expression in you. 

 > maternal nicotine exposure during pregnancy is linked to asthma in the
third generation in disease models. [...] 
Isn't this essentially describing a Lamarckian process?

I don't dispute the existence of epigenetic changes even if it's far less
important than Mendelian inheritance, but where is the acquired
characteristic? If exposure to nicotine led to nicotine tolerance in the
parent and the offspring then it would give some support to the inheritance
of acquired characteristics, but instead you've just got asthma. It's not
news that some chemicals increase the rate of mutation. And besides, you
need a lot more than the inheritance of acquired characteristics for
Lamarckian evolution to work, you need a way to separate the good acquired
characteristics from the bad (asthma is bad), and only Darwinian natural
selection can do that. 

  John K Clark
 

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