John ~ One more thought came to me after I hit the send button; so this really is a segue to my earlier longer response. It regards specifically your - which is, I very much agree, the correct -- assertion that without the multi-generational process of Darwinian selection evolution cannot occur, and that multi-generational epigenetic hereditary changes are not therefore examples of evolution in and of themselves. I agree, Darwinian selection is the crux of evolution; hereditary transmission alone is not an example of evolution; so in this I stand corrected - I had originally suggested the case of great grandmother's smoking habit being epigenetically linked to the asthma in their 3rd generation progeny as an example of Lamarckian or perhaps less controversial less baggage burdened term Epigenetic evolution.
Of course - and this is the extra point I want to make -- this same quite correct assertion also applies to changes in an organism's DNA as well - whether introduced by random mutation or directed genetic engineering. Individual organisms within a population may inherit mutated/altered DNA, but evolution does not occur in this scenario either, until generations of evolutionary pressure have selected for the most well adapted individuals (more specifically, at least, those well adapted in terms of being able to survive long enough and compete well enough in order to wide cast their genetic information J). -Chris From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 7:56 AM To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com> wrote: > some feel Epigenetics should only refer to the actual molecular mechanisms (such as DNA methylation and histone modification) that alter the underlying gene expression; I find this restrictive and use epigenetics to also describe inheritance of changes in the expression of genes. There appears to be increasing evidence that points to epigenetic inheritance Yes, but that also means that epigenetic inheritance is fundamentally less important than the traditional sort. If you don't have the gene then you just don't have it and that's all there is to it, but if you have the gene but it's not expressed because of one simple methyl group then one of your sperm could lack those 4 atoms (CH3) and your offspring, or his offspring, could inherit the fully functional complex gene even if there was no sign of its expression in you. > maternal nicotine exposure during pregnancy is linked to asthma in the third generation in disease models. [...] Isn't this essentially describing a Lamarckian process? I don't dispute the existence of epigenetic changes even if it's far less important than Mendelian inheritance, but where is the acquired characteristic? If exposure to nicotine led to nicotine tolerance in the parent and the offspring then it would give some support to the inheritance of acquired characteristics, but instead you've just got asthma. It's not news that some chemicals increase the rate of mutation. And besides, you need a lot more than the inheritance of acquired characteristics for Lamarckian evolution to work, you need a way to separate the good acquired characteristics from the bad (asthma is bad), and only Darwinian natural selection can do that. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.