Brent - Quite probably you are correct and I agree that the scenario I outlined was unlikely - I was riffing on a speculative vein, I don't actually think covert AI is a likely scenario because as you said various AI precursors would make themselves visible to human operators and analysts. patterns would be discerned (except if they were being hidden and excluded from any reporting that humans would see (so much reporting software relies on generated code)
I think it is however a promising approach to try to achieve AI - from the removed level that we manage these things nowadays. Instead of trying to assemble it in some single machine or tightly coupled cluster of machines under one roof if it could be a more spread out architecture. If you take a company with say 20,000 machines on its network each of which may be using at any given time under 20% of its processing, memory and mass storage capacity the reservoir of under-utilized latent capacity in that is vast and could operate under the radar of users awareness, not in secret - that was my earlier scenario J, but in running processes and algorithms that are of utility to the enterprise. Now a transient node network like that maps well to a virtualized architecture where the - shall we call it - ghost in the machine - which is the many concurrently running meta-processes (workflows, transactions etc.) that are often also in cross talk inter-communication with each other. This is typical of enterprise needs. As the algorithms are evolved (and less and less programmed - and hence becoming less deterministic in how they come to be) and in this unique environment of physical disconnection and temporal disconnection in a massively parallel environment and when they do - as increasingly and on global scale they are -- independently operating decision generating processes will begin to interact in subtle & unpredicted ways. What I am suspecting is that the unique architectures most suitable for highly virtualized and virtualizable, highly responsive systems is also the kind of architecture that can perhaps create the subtle deep echo waves and resonance patterns and promote a less deterministic kind of meta program (that may be self-generating in a dynamic sense too) It is this uniquely and massively parallel environment and the need to come up with meta processes that can operate successfully in such an environment, with nodes joining and leaving all the time, that I personally think is most promising for achieving true AI. I think humans are going to be actively involved, but at an increasing remove, at architectural, and executive levels. But as Craig W said earlier true AI may be impossible because of the aesthetic dimension that is wrapped up inside consciousness. And perhaps he is correct in an ultimate sense. However expert systems and domain specific AI is already here - an example would be the Google car perhaps - not a generalized intelligence perhaps, but pretty damn good at driving a car in Las Vegas in all kinds of traffic conditions. -Chris D From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 8:00 PM To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Rambling on AI -- was: When will a computer pass the Turing Test? On 8/17/2013 4:53 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote: We must not limit the rise of AI to any single geo-located system and ignore just how fertile of an ecosystem the global networked world of machines and connected devices provides for a nimble highly virtualized AI that exist in no place at any given time, but has neurons in millions (possibly billions) of devices everywhere on earth... an AI that cannot be shut down without shutting down literally everything that is so deeply penetrated and embedded in all our systems that it becomes impossible to extricate. I am speculating of course and have no evidence that this is indeed occurring, but am presenting it as a potential architecture of awareness. I agree that such and AI is possible, but I think it is extremely unlikely for the same reason it is unlikely that an animal with human-like intelligence could evolve - that niche is taken. Your scenarios contemplate an AI that evolves somehow in secret and then spring upon us fully developed. But the evolving AI would show it's hand *before* it became superhumanly clever at hiding. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.