On 24 Aug 2013, at 17:57, Quentin Anciaux wrote:




2013/8/24 John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 11:34 PM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com > wrote >>> The computer requires a substrate in which to operate upon -- the CPU chips for example are what our computers operate on. I know of no computer that does not require this external structured environment

>> The human requires a substrate in which to operate upon -- the brain for example is what our human minds operate on. I know of no human that does not require this external structured environment.


> Yes… and?

And you tell me, those are your ideas not mine. I don't see the relevance but I thought you did.

>>> Every computer in existence requires external enabling hardware.

>>Every human in existence requires external enabling hardware.

> Yes but humans are not universal computing machines,

If we're not universal then we are provincial computing machines. Do you really think this strengthens your case concerning the superiority of humans?

> if indeed we are machines.

We are either cuckoo clocks or roulette wheels, take your pick.

> Do we know enough about how our brains work and are structured to the level that we would need to in order to be able to answer that question with any degree of certainty?

Yes absolutely! I can say with no fear of contradiction that things in the brain happen for a reason or they do not happen for a reason.

> I was referring to the hypothesized deterministic universe, in which everything that has happened can be computed from the initial state and has followed on from that original set of conditions

Everything in modern physics and mathematics says that determinism is false,

That's wrong, MWI is deterministic... and again, deterministic and computable are two different thing.

Right. For example arithmetical truth is deterministic, but only a little part of arithmetical truth is computable.

Also, we are at least Turing universal. Comp is that we are not more than Turing universal. I guess you agree.

Bruno




Quentin

but who cares, we were talking about intelligence and biological minds and computer minds; what does the truth of falsehood of determinism have to do with the price of eggs?

  John K Clark


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