On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Hi spudboy100
>
> Anything that moves according to rules, a program, regulations, a control, 
> etc. is not mind.
>
> Mind has to be free and unconstrained, at least in principle.

Why?

>
> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
> See my Leibniz site at
> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
>
>
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> From:  spudboy100
> Receiver:  everything-list,rclough
> Time: 2013-08-27, 13:14:57
> Subject: Re: Leibniz's final causation as the Self, the active agent of change
>
>
>
>
>>My B in law posited, what moves the cursor, using a pc as an analogy of mind? 
>>Of course the cursor can be programmed to move and act, by a program, but 
>>then who made the programmer?  Leibniz and other thinkers may have asked, who 
>>made God? Terrific question. My sense of things is the use of an old 
>>fashioned or a new fashioned map. One is paper and you use your eyes and 
>>fingers, another map is you punch in the destination, and a women's voice 
>>speaks "Turn right in 5 miles! Both are maps. Similarly asking who created 
>>God is akin to asking your maps, "where is the next alien intelligent 
>>civilization in the Galaxy?"  Our little maps cannot tell us, because we're 
>>"out of range." Having said this, where are the space aliens, or where is 
>>God, may not be detectable on our maps, simply because we haven't explored 
>>the universe sufficiently.
>>
>>Physicist, Freeman Dyson, has written that to know more things we have to 
>>have increasingly better observation, and to do this, we have to have 
>>improved tools for better experimentation and observation. The Self may be 
>>detectable or comprehendible through better tools, and one of these tools is 
>>assuredly mathematics.
>>
>>Mitch
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Roger Clough
>>To: - Roger Clough
>>Sent: Mon, Aug 26, 2013 3:31 am
>>Subject: Leibniz's final causation as the Self, the active agent of change
>>
>>
>>
>>Leibniz's final causation as the Self, the active agent of change
>>
>>So far, materialistic models of the mind, such as Dennett's,
>>are essentially passive.  There is no internal active agent of change,
>>which one might call the Self.
>>
>>The internal active agent of change is desire, which we might
>>define as a mismatch between the current state and a goal.
>>In other words, the internal active agent of change is final
>>causation, which has been discussed by Leibniz as typical of
>>life, and also by Aristotle in his four basic causes of change.
>>
>>This desire to achieve a personal goal appears mentally as
>>an intention, which is the active agent of change.  This is what
>>we call the Self, and is the missing element of AI as well as
>>current models of the mind.
>>
>>
>>Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
>>See my Leibniz site at
>>http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
>>
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