2013/10/2 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>

>
> On 02 Oct 2013, at 10:35, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>
>
>
>
> 2013/10/1 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
>
>>
>> On 30 Sep 2013, at 15:56, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>>
>> Not exactly.  And that depends on what we call as science. Many called
>> sciences are pure rubbish, while some other disciplines outside of what is
>> now called science are much more interesting. I´, in favor of good science
>> and good philosophy. I consider good whatever knowledge endavour that is
>> not in the hands of wishful thinking.  There are too much disciplines that
>> call themselves sciences, as well as others outside that are little more
>> that wishful thinking.
>>
>>
>> Good philosophers are scientists (the Greeks, Maudlin, etc.)
>> Good scientists are philosophers (Einstein, Gödel, etc.)
>>
>> In my youth, the academical philosophy nearby was Marxist propaganda, and
>> today, my opponents ask philosophers to criticize the work by authority, as
>> they admit not seeing one flaw. This makes me think that philosophy is the
>> place where argument per authority are still tolerated. This means that
>> philosophy is a tool to imitate institutionalized pseudo-religion.
>>
>> But above the vocabulary, we might try to just understand each others.
>> Personally, I see science as the perpetual fight against prejudices and any
>> form of certainties. Science is just the attitude of being able to doubt
>> and change their mind, and that spirit can be applied in any domain.
>>
>
> The problem with the word science is that it is also being contaminated,
> from outside and from inside of it.  in the same way that philosophy was in
> the past.
>
> It is natural. If you look at charlatans, advertising and different gurus,
> the world that they use most is "science" and "scientific". But lately
> sometimes I can not distinguish a scientist in search of fame from a
> charlatan.  And authoritarian arguments or at least abuse of authority are
> used also in all sciences. There is not such ideal and sane institution of
> human life that is free of humans. The whitest some institution is, the
> more it attract power seeking, inmoral and self deceptive people that will
> try to pervert the rules for his own benefit, and science.
>
>
>
> Some academies are just prostituted to rotten (sometime) politics, often
> just to get enough funding to survive.
>
> Money is not the problem. Black, obscure and grey money is the problem.
>
> Wait, this is indeed the most fundamental question!

The interaction of how knowledge interact with money and power in society
and convert itself in beliefs as a system that prevent further knowledge
must be an integral part of research.

For me this meta-knowledge about knowledge faith and power is a more
fundamental question than knowledge itself.

>
>
> These are facts that can be demonstrated with evolutionary game theory!!
>  Even in physical sciences is very hard to get along. Einstein not only was
> a genius, it was a strongly determined man that wanted to be heard.
>
>
> After reading Jammer's "Einstein and Religion", I would say he was a
> rather good theologian, partially heard and understood by some theologian
> (like Torrance, which, I was glad was aware of the trap of "natural
> theology").
> (Especially that my feeling is that somehow Torrance has been trapped, but
> then probably no more than Einstein itself.
>
> But Jammer eludes Everett, and even Gödel's solution to GR (the rotating
> universes, in which time travel is possible).
> (It is sad a he was rather fair with Everett in his book on the
> pohilosophy of QM)
>
>
> I like (in Pale Yourgrau's book on Einstein and Gödel's legacy)  when
> Gödel told Einstein "I don't believe in the natural science". He was more
> Platonist than I thought.
> But Gödel's missed Church thesis, and that his theorem might be the
> biggest chance for mechanist philosophy, and the Pythagorean version of
> Platonism. (Like me and Judson Webb, and some others (including Hofstadter)
> defend).
>
> At last I got an answer to a question I asked myself for a very long time:
> did Einstein understood at least that Gödel's theorem is a chance for a non
> trivial fundamental realism in mathematics or arithmetics.
> The answer is "yes", Einstein understood apparently that physics might not
> be the most fundamental science. But unlike Gödel, he will not conceive
> that theology might become a science (still less that it *was* a science at
> the beginning of science in occident).
>
> I recommend :)
>
> Jammer:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Einstein-Religion-Theology-Max-Jammer/dp/069110297X
>
> Palle Yourgrau:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/World-Without-Time-Forgotten-Einstein/dp/0465092942
>
> Bruno
>
>
> Interesting. I´ll take a look although the natural theology  practised by
hard scientists is too much biased to hard science quiestions. I have
enough of this. I had enough of particles and turing machines. Now I want
to understand humans

>
>
>> Many texts in human science can easily be transformed in authentic good
>> pieces of science, just by adding some interrogation marks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Being a physicist, I consider all the stuff about determinism, QM and so
>> on extraordinarily interesting, but it has little to say about the concept
>> of free will that I´m interested in. On the contrary, there are
>> developments in evolution, evolutionary psychology, category theory, game
>> theory and computer science that can say things  interesting for the
>> problems that interested to the classical philosophers. All of these
>> disciplines are non reductionists, and can apply to all the levels of
>> complexity.
>>
>>
>> We agree on this.
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/9/30 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
>>
>>>
>>> On 29 Sep 2013, at 11:58, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>>>
>>
>  http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
>
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-- 
Alberto.

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