2013/10/6 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>

>  On 10/6/2013 9:08 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>
>   Some academies are just prostituted to rotten (sometime) politics,
>> often just to get enough funding to survive.
>>
>>  Money is not the problem. Black, obscure and grey money is the problem.
>>
>>   Wait, this is indeed the most fundamental question!
>
>  *How knowledge interact with money and power in society and convert
> itself in beliefs as a system that prevent further knowledge must be an
> integral part of research. *
> *
> *
> *For me this meta-knowledge about knowledge faith and power is a more
> fundamental question than knowledge itself.*
>
>>  -------
>
>  I think that people don' t want knowledge primarily.  What they aim at,
> is like any living being, and in fact, like any stable dynamic
> auto-regulated structure, is * to reduce uncertainty*.
>
>
>
> Naah.  If that were true they'd never climb Mt. Everest or race
> motorcycles or explore new territory.  People are complex, they want
> different things at different times.  Sometimes it's comfort and security,
> sometimes it's adventure, sometimes its companionship and sometimes it's
> competition, sometimes it's leisure, sometimes it's strife.  Evolution just
> dictates that sometimes its sex and progeny.
>


Good, but some of those complexities  comes from the complex that is
reducing uncertainty in so complex systems such are human societies. First,
either evolution dictates nothing or it dictates everything, because
societies are also a product o evolution. under a gene-meme multilevel
selection process, where memes is in the top of the hierarchy.

To climb mount Everest has egoistic and altruistic aspects. The egoistic
ones try to increase individual fitness, by fame , respect or money. All of
them are individual uncertainty reducers, because they increase resources
for survival and reproduction, that is, survive against the entropic noise
of death and forgetting, and assure  the survival of the personal meme-gene
legacy.

But there is something altruistic also (well the former is not so egoistic
at last) Sir Helmunt Hillary climbed the Everest not only for himself, but
for England. Because he wanted the flag of England to wave above all
nations. To contemplate your nation as powerful and respectable by other
nations is not only a uncertainty reducer for you but also for generations
to come that share your gene-meme legacy.

So there is it.

>
> Brent
>
>
>  That fit with many considerations at different levels, and embrace
> conclussions of evolution, game theory, computability, social science
> psychology and entropy.
>
>
>   That explain how knowledge interact with power (and money and you wish)
> and faith. As I will explain:
>
>  To reduce uncertainty can be achieved adquiring pure knowledge of the
> world around in order to predict better the future.
>
>  But it can also be achieved by adquiring for themselves money or power,
> or love from other people, or commitment from tem, or respect, or common
> commintment to something or someone.
>
>  The fact is that pure knowledge is not enoug. Money is not enough, power
> is not enough, since neither of them work without a committed society that
> make use of this knowledge in an organized way, that respect the money
> value and other properties, that has fair mechanism for adquiring power and
> legitimacy, and more that that, a society with a  clear plan for our
> sibiling and generations to come.
>
>  Thinking materialistically (I´m not but for a matter of argument) there
> is no social vehicle for our genes if the society have all these
> requirements, and, more important, no people that had not these
> requirements ullfilled survived, so we have inherited this natural seeking
> for all these kinds of uncertainty reduction mechanism around us.
>
>  Some societies make enphasis in one kind of uncertainty reduction.
> Others rely more in other different in this equation. These different
> uncertainty reduction alternatives are one against the other. A strict
> hiearchi of power and legitimacy based on an enforced supernatural plan is
> a excellent uncertainty reduction for a stable society that does not need
> to change. In the other side, adquring knowledge is good, but that may
> challenge the structure, questionin legitimacies and creating civil wars,
> that can be pacific or violent. When there is no common plans nor
> loyaltyes, the pacific disputes become violent almos by defintion.
>
>  A lot of philosophy on all their branches can be extracted from this
> starting point.
>
>
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-- 
Alberto.

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