True, but that does not explain why a word processor would even exist if words were ultimate only computational tokens used by one computer to talk to another. Why not just talk to other computers in the universal language of computation? > > I've had similar discussions with people who believe in paranormal > phenomena. Some people can be quite good at using their intuition to > sense things. But when testing under rigorous controlled circumstances > they fail. But the believers will still argue that there must be some > paranormal effect here because "they can't see how he/she comes up with > that information". You don't have to be a believer to be able to consider that since consciousness seems to involve the translation of the immeasurable to the measurable (and vice versa), measurement itself might alter the effect.The unintended consequences of testing under rigorous controlled circumstances should not be dismissed, any more than the placebo effect can be dismissed. Conditions which are rigorously controlled are not neutral conditions where consciousness is concerned, since control is one of the primary features of consciousness. > But then if you could give a simple formal > explanation that explains this, e.g. how to look at someone's face to > extract the desired information, then you could also do this task using > a programmable calculator, which means that an insect should in > principle also be able to perform that task. But we obviously don't > have a vastly larger brain than that of an insect for nothing. > But insects can tell the difference between okra and oranges too. There are plankton with eyes made of two cells who have no brain at all. Try as we might, there is no justification to be found for why computers would use qualia, or how they could specifically conjure them out of numbers. Numbers have no flavor or color, computations do not get dizzy or feel sad. Computation is automation and automation is what consciousness uses to offload its burden of feeling and doing. Craig > > Saibal > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.