On Friday, October 11, 2013 11:32:49 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote:
> On Saturday, October 12, 2013, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>> On Friday, October 11, 2013 5:37:52 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote:
>>> On Oct 11, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:58:30 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote:
>>>> On 9 October 2013 05:25, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > http://online.wsj.com/article/**SB1000142405270230349250457911**
>>>> > A lot of what I am always talking about is in there...computers don't
>>>> > understand produce because they have no aesthetic sensibility. A
>>>> > description of a function is not the same thing as participating in
>>>> > experience.
>>>> This is effectively a test for consciousness: if the entity can
>>>> perform the type of task you postulate requires aesthetic sensibility,
>>>> it must have aesthetic sensibility.
>>> Not at all. That's exactly the opposite of what I am saying. The failure
>>> of digital mechanism to interface with aesthetic presence is not testable
>>> unless you yourself become a digital mechanism. There can never be a test
>>> of aesthetic sensibility because testing is by definition anesthetic. To
>>> test is to measure into a system of universal representation. Measurement
>>> is the removal of presence for the purpose of distribution as symbol. I can
>>> draw a picture of a robot correctly identifying a vegetable, but that
>>> doesn't mean that the drawing of the robot is doing anything. I can make a
>>> movie of the robot cartoon, or a sculpture, or an animated sculpture that
>>> has a sensor for iodine or magnesium which can be correlated to a higher
>>> probability of a particular vegetable, but that doesn't change anything at
>>> all. There is still no robot except in our experience and our expectations
>>> of its experience. The robot is not even a zombie, it is a puppet playing
>>> back recordings of our thoughts in a clever way.
>>> OK, so it would prove nothing to you if the supermarket computers did a
>>> better job than the checkout chicks. Why then did you cite this article?
>> Because the article is consistent with my view that there is a
>> fundamental difference between quantitative tasks and aesthetic awareness.
>> If there were no difference, then I would expect that the problems that
>> supermarket computers would have would not be related to its
>> unconsciousness, but to unreliability or even willfulness developing. Why
>> isn't the story "Automated cashiers have begun throwing temper tantrums at
>> some locations which are contagious to certain smart phones that now become
>> upset in sympathy...we had anticipated this, but not so soon, yadda yadda"?
>> I think it's pretty clear why. For the same reason that all machines will
>> always fall short of authentic personality and sensitivity.
> So you would just say that computers lack authentic personality and
> sensitivity, no matter what they did.
Beyond question, yes. I wouldn't just say it, I would bet my life on it,
because I understand it completely.
> Stathis Papaioannou
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