On 13 Oct 2013, at 12:24, Russell Standish wrote:

On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:05:46AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 13 Oct 2013, at 06:47, Craig Weinberg wrote:



On Saturday, October 12, 2013 3:54:29 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote:
On 10/12/2013 12:49 AM, freqflyer07281972 wrote:
Yes, but you see, even the food we get from the restaurant, is
delicious. Why would it be delicious, assuming COMP. How could
the primary modalities of things be good or bad assuming COMP? I
know most people here think Craig is a hand waver, but I
honestly cannot understand how qualia emerge from quantia,
including their(meaning, my experiences) magically "emerge" from
the many quants that Bruno's idea seems to require.

Emergence is a description of how we think about our models of the
world - not something in the world.  So Bruno has a theory in
which some parts are true but incommunicable.  He identifies these
with qualia because that is (supposedly) a characteristic of
qualia.  That's actually how all scientific theories work: you
hypothesize a model, including connections to observations and see
if it has explanatory and predictive power.

Isn't the the characteristic of "true but incommunicable" math a
rather thin premise to suggest that the incommunicability of some
truth = the appearance of flavors, colors, sounds, etc?

"true but incommunicable" applies to three hypostases, and thus get
three different logics. How do you know in advance that one of them
will not throw some light on the qualia problem? Try to answer this
without begging the question.

Bruno


How do we know that those 3 hypostases exhaust the possibilities for
logics containing true but incommunicable sentences?

Who ever said that they exhaust them?

On the contrary, I have explained once that the 8 hypostases are really 4 + 4 * infinity hypostases. We get quantization also for the B^n p & D^t nuances, which makes the quantum logic graded, and which I hoped that they could be exploited to get the "Temperley Lieb" algebra to get the emergence of a physical tridimensional (quantum) space (but the math get too much complex).

The 8 hypostases are only the most obvious one, but without Gödel incompleteness we would not have them at all. That's the miracle. That they exists and that machines can grasp them when looking inward.



I do think Craig has a point here.

Craig assumes them. The point is that there can be consequences of arithmetic + classical theory of knowledge (and/or comp).

Bruno



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