On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 8:18:28 PM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy 
wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Craig Weinberg 
> <whats...@gmail.com<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 4:21:34 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 16 Oct 2013, at 03:01, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> we must use what is our birthright as living beings. We can be 
>>> opportunistic, we can cheat, and lie, and unplug machines whenever we want, 
>>> because that is what makes us superior to recorded logic. We are alive, so 
>>> we get to do whatever we want to that which is not alive.
>>>
>>> Craig, these are murky waters you're fishing in this time.
>
> I forgot who said the following: "X is giving reasons for why reasoning is 
> bad. His reasoning was bad."
>

Murky, yes. I think that consciousness and life are trans-rational, 
trans-measurable, and trans-ontological.
 

>  
>
>>
>>> Here you are more than invalid. You are frightening. 
>>> We have compared you to racist, and what you say now reminds me of the 
>>> strategy used by Nazy to "prove" that the white caucasian were superior. 
>>> Lies, lies and lies.
>>>
>>> We can lie, machines can lie, but I am not sure it is the best science, 
>>> or the best politics.
>>> With comp, God = Truth, and lies are Devil's play.
>>>
>>>
>> If there is a chance that a machine will be born that is like me, only 
>> billions of times more capable and more racist than I am against all forms 
>> of life, wouldn't you say that it would be worth trying to stop at all 
>> costs?
>>
>
> How could a machine be racist if it is totally incapable of any form of 
> relation or sentience, according to you?
>

Not according to me, I'm going along with Bruno. By his view, I am a 
machine, or a product of a machine, so if I am racist against machines, 
then it is inevitable that there will be machines who are similarly racist 
against humans or biology - the only difference being that they may be 
placed in a position to exert much more control on the world.
 

>  
>
>>
>>
>>> But thanks for warning us about the way you proceed.
>>>
>>> This does not help for your case,
>>>
>>
>> I am just the beginning. Your sun in law will make me seem like Snoopy.
>>
>>
> If the above holds and you're not just playing, then these ideas make you 
> totally mainstream: hunger for opportunistic dominance and perverted sense 
> of liberty so expansive that we poison the very air we breathe and the soil 
> that grounds our homes. You'd be saying nothing new at all, just the 
> opposite in fact. 
>

Even if that's not what I think that I advocate personally, my point is 
that there is no reason to assume that an AI would be any different, given 
that we are machines.
 

>
> The opportunism program is so old, cockroaches run it successfully and 
> will continue to do so. They also eat their young. Makes sense, consistent 
> with opportunism, but not the apex of aesthetics to put it mildly. To 
> anybody with the luxury of cultivating an aesthetic sense, even when 
> inevitable, that is merely ugly and to be avoided.
>

I agree, but that's because I'm not a machine. The part of me that is a 
machine is no better or worse than a cockroach.

Craig
 

>
>  PGC
>  
>  
>
>> Craig
>>  
>>
>>>
>>> Bruno
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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