On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:11:02 PM UTC-4, Liz R wrote:
> On 16 October 2013 14:05, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com <javascript:>
> > wrote:
>> On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:51:17 PM UTC-4, Liz R wrote:
>>> On 16 October 2013 13:48, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> No, that's begging the question. A human body may be a machine, but 
>>>> that does not mean that a human experience can be created from the outside 
>>>> in. That's what all of these points are about - a machine does not build 
>>>> itself from a single reproducing cell. A machine does not care what it is 
>>>> doing, it doesn't get bored or tired. A machine is great at doing things 
>>>> that people are terrible at doing and vice versa. There is much more 
>>>> evidence to suggest that human experience is the polar opposite of 
>>>> mechanism than that it could be defined by mechanism.
>>>> So what is a human being, if not a (very complicated, 
>>> molecular-component-**containing) machine? (Or is "machine" being 
>>> defined in a specialised sense here?) 
>> A human being is the collective self experience received during the 
>> phenomenon known as a human lifetime. The body is only one aspect of that 
>> experience - a reflection defined as a familiar body in the context of its 
>> own perception.
> That's cool, but if the body is a (complicated, etc) machine, then either 
> those experiences are part of the machine, or they're something else. If 
> they're part of the machine then you're wrong in some of the above-quoted 
> statements (and you contradicted yourself by saying that a machine doesn't 
> grow from a cell, by the way) If it's something else, then - depending on 
> the nature of that something else - it's possible that other things have 
> it, and we don't recognise the fact. It would be important to know what 
> that something else is before one can construct an argument. (For example, 
> I believe Bruno thinks the "something else" is an infinite sheaf of 
> computations.)

Have you considered that it might be the body which is part of a sheaf of 

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