On 17 October 2013 16:12, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:11:02 PM UTC-4, Liz R wrote:
>> On 16 October 2013 14:05, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:51:17 PM UTC-4, Liz R wrote:
>>>> On 16 October 2013 13:48, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> No, that's begging the question. A human body may be a machine, but
>>>>> that does not mean that a human experience can be created from the outside
>>>>> in. That's what all of these points are about - a machine does not build
>>>>> itself from a single reproducing cell. A machine does not care what it is
>>>>> doing, it doesn't get bored or tired. A machine is great at doing things
>>>>> that people are terrible at doing and vice versa. There is much more
>>>>> evidence to suggest that human experience is the polar opposite of
>>>>> mechanism than that it could be defined by mechanism.
>>>>> So what is a human being, if not a (very complicated,
>>>> molecular-component-**containing**) machine? (Or is "machine" being
>>>> defined in a specialised sense here?)
>>> A human being is the collective self experience received during the
>>> phenomenon known as a human lifetime. The body is only one aspect of that
>>> experience - a reflection defined as a familiar body in the context of its
>>> own perception.
>> That's cool, but if the body is a (complicated, etc) machine, then either
>> those experiences are part of the machine, or they're something else. If
>> they're part of the machine then you're wrong in some of the above-quoted
>> statements (and you contradicted yourself by saying that a machine doesn't
>> grow from a cell, by the way) If it's something else, then - depending on
>> the nature of that something else - it's possible that other things have
>> it, and we don't recognise the fact. It would be important to know what
>> that something else is before one can construct an argument. (For example,
>> I believe Bruno thinks the "something else" is an infinite sheaf of
>> computations.)
> Have you considered that it might be the body which is part of a sheaf of
> experiences?

Since Bruno started trying to explain comp to me, I have indeed considered
that. It could be, for example, via the mechanism you mentioned in your
previous post:

Bruno considers arithmetic to be behind mechanism, mechanism to be behind
> awareness, and awareness to be behind physics.

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