On 10/22/2013 5:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 21 Oct 2013, at 20:07, meekerdb wrote:

On 10/20/2013 11:12 PM, Russell Standish wrote:
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 08:09:59PM -0700, meekerdb wrote:
Consistency is []p & ~[]~p. I was saying []p & ~p, ie mistaken belief.
ISTM that Bruno equivocates and [] sometimes means "believes" and sometimes 
"provable".

And I'm doing the same. It's not such an issue - a mathematician will
only believe something if e can prove it.

But provable(p)==>p  and believes(p)=/=>p, so why equivocate on them?


Both provable('p') -> p, and believe('p') -> p, when we limit ourself to 
correct machine.


(And incidentally mathematicians believe stuff they can't prove all the time - that's how they choose things to try to prove).

Then it is a conjecture. They don't believe rationally in conjecture, when they 
are correct.

They believe it in the real operational sense of "believe", they will bet their whole professional lives on it. How long did it take Andrew Wiles to prove Fermat's last theorem? Since one can never know that one is a "correct machine" it seems to me a muddling of things to equivocate on "provable" and "believes".

Brent

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