On 30 October 2013 14:22, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

>  On 10/29/2013 4:02 PM, LizR wrote:
>  On 30 October 2013 07:53, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>  On 10/29/2013 9:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>> Depressingly, until the
>> middle of the XX century there was no general consensus that all human
>> beings are people with equal rights.
>> That's a very recent idea, indeed.
>>  It's so recent that it's well into the future.  There are large parts
>> of the Earth where equal rights for women do not exist and are considered
>> wrong and even wicked.
>  True.
>> And of course children do not have full rights anywhere and I don't
>> expect that to change.
>  I'm not sure if you consider this a bad thing, but if so, it's fair to
> argue that at least in some cases this is for their own good. For example,
> my children are provided for by their parents, and therefore don't have the
> rights that would come if they were equal providers in the household. They
> are birds in a gilded cage. E.g. they don't have the right to carry out
> actions (like trombone practice) when these would interfere with work that
> brings in money for their upkeep. Toddlers don't have the right to run into
> a busy road, or to play with electrical equipment; my children don't have
> the right to take time off school whenever they like, this is in order to
> ensure they are properly educated, which is a right they should have but
> don't always want. Nor do they have the right to only eat unhealthy food,
> which would cause them problems later in life. They don't have the right to
> stay out all night, except at a friend's house, because that would be
> unsafe. And so on. They do have a right to be provided for by their
> parents, and not to be exploited. They are 12 and 15, and will gradually
> acquire all the above-mentioned rights as they get older.
> That was my point.  Children are definitely persons if anyone is - but
> that's not a reason to bestow all kinds of rights on them.  Rights are
> social constructs.
> Agreed on both points.

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