Ok, by me, although for an off-topic subject, it is interesting how 
frequently it comes up.

On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 5:50:46 PM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote:
>
> Brent and Craig, 
>
> Politics are typically a trigger for endless off-topic discussions. I 
> respect your opinions, but maybe we should avoid this stuff. 
>
> Telmo. 
>
> On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 9:31 PM, meekerdb <meek...@verizon.net<javascript:>> 
> wrote: 
> > On 10/30/2013 4:05 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: 
> >> 
> >> On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 2:51 AM, meekerdb 
> >> <meek...@verizon.net<javascript:>> 
> wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> On 10/29/2013 4:17 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> But this is how I see the concept of √úbermensch. The idea got horribly 
> >>> distorted by subsequent political events. The ideal of √úbermensch is a 
> >>> human that transcends the illusion and becomes aware of it's true (1p) 
> >>> nature. I also see it as close to Buddhist ideas. 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> I certainly agree that Nietzsche's Ubermensch has been horribly 
> >>> distorted. 
> >>> Although anybody who is claimed as a philosophical ancestor by the 
> Nazis 
> >>> and 
> >>> Ayn Rand must have been doing something wrong. :-) 
> >> 
> >> Just to defend Ayn Rand a bit :) : 
> >> 
> >> The Nazis and Ayn Rand are ideological opposites. The former were for 
> >> total state, while the latter was against state. Also there's the 
> >> small matter of genocide vs. writing some books. Recent events have 
> >> been showing that Rand was on to something with many of her ideas: 
> >> 
> >> "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the 
> >> stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while 
> >> the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the 
> >> darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force." 
> >> -- Ayn Rand 
> >> 
> >> My main problem with Rand is that I find objectivism childish. She was 
> >> a hardcore Aristotelian and didn't understand the problem with her "no 
> >> contradictions" dogma. But I'm a lover of individual freedom, so I 
> >> have a soft spot for her. 
> > 
> > 
> > But like the Nazis she conceived freedom as freedom from social 
> constraint 
> > and to dominate or destroy others without remorse as the Untermensch. 
>  Are 
> > you familiar with William Hickman?  Rand was: 
> > 
> > "At the time, she was planning a novel that was to be titled The Little 
> > Street, the projected hero of which was named Danny Renahan.According to 
> > Rand scholar Chris Matthew Sciabarra, she deliberately modeled Renahan - 
> > intended to be her first sketch of her ideal man - after this same 
> William 
> > Edward Hickman. Renahan, she enthuses in another journal entry, "is born 
> > with a wonderful, free, light consciousness -- [resulting from] the 
> absolute 
> > lack of social instinct or herd feeling. He does not understand, because 
> he 
> > has no organ for understanding, the necessity, meaning, or importance of 
> > other people ... Other people do not exist for him and he does not 
> > understand why they should." (Journals, pp. 27, 21-22; emphasis hers.)" 
> > 
> > http://michaelprescott.freeservers.com/romancing-the-stone-cold.html 
> > 
> > Brent 
> > 
> > 
> >> 
> >>>   But the Buddhist idea is 
> >>> to withdraw from the world.  Nietzsche's idea is to engage it, amor 
> fati. 
> >>> The will to power is the creative drive. To create art. To create 
> >>> oneself. 
> >> 
> >> Well put. 
> >> 
> >> Telmo. 
> >> 
> >>> Brent 
> >>> 
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