As Telmo indicated , Rand, railed against unlimited state power, which is what 
Marxism and Fascism are all about. Her individualism,  stuff is central to her 
philosophy, but breaks down to the argument that being forced to donate is no 
donation at all, but extortion from unlimited state power. Mieses and Hayek 
observed this in action, and it was the conclusion that one reason the German 
public kept silent during the Holocaust, was they were bought off by "social 
services access." This was the conclusion of a German citizen of Turkish 
origin, an academic. I might be able to look up this academic, if needed?

Secondly, has anyone here when referring to US healthcare (Yeah I know that is 
a separate thread) knows what Medicaid and Medicare are? Thirdly, does anyone 
know that Scalia took, fellow, justice, Elena Kagan, deer hunting a few months 
ago? Scalia may believe in a devil, but he does make nice nice with his 
political opposite, and gay cohort on the US Supreme Court. Sounds like a 
regular storm trooper to me!  Strumabteilung, as the Germans called it.

Lastly, has anyone ever met a real, live, Tea Partier, or Tea Bagger, how ever 
you wish to term it? 
One of the demons that haunt this planet is the wrong belief, that Marxism, and 
Statism get a lot of people killed, often on purpose.

-----Original Message-----
From: meekerdb <>
To: everything-list <>
Sent: Mon, Nov 4, 2013 3:03 pm
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

On 11/4/2013 4:10 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
> <> wrote:
>> Well reasoned opportunism taken literally still remains what it is. I don't
>> reason against it and nature has good reason for these tendencies locally.
> Yes, but one has to be careful about global narratives. Our culture is
> filled with them "the american dream", "globalisation", "left vs.
> right", "patriotism", "the spread of democracy", "the west vs. the
> east", "first world and third world", etc. These narratives were not
> necessarily created with out best interest in mind.
>> My main problem is that I just can't picture myself around a bunch of Rand
>> fans licking their fingers "greed is good, keep deregulating all things
>> financial, if my greed implies profit through poisoning the earth, good
>> because stellar Profits....muahahaha!!!" Where's the fun in that, except
>> maybe for Halloween or something?
> Ok, but these people are just plain criminals. Deregulation in Rand's
> speculations happens in a world where nobody controls the supply of
> money and nobody has the power to create new money out of thin air.
> Pushing for deregulation in a world were central banks still exist is
> just another attempt to steel money from everyone.

Before central banks there were independent banks that issued script and stole 
money from 
their depositors.

> Someone who is
> honest and believes in Rand's ideas would push to end the central
> banks and fiat money before demanding any other types of deregulation.
> In fact, some believe that this might be enough. What the Wall Street
> criminals want is the freedom to risk _our_ resources for _their_
> profit. They pretty closely match the villains in Rand's world, with
> their preferential ties to the government and all.
>> So this is mere aesthetic Muahahaha refutation, where I understand and am
>> convinced the reasoning is sound on many levels, but I am disgusted by being
>> pushed into situations in which I have to think and operate in that kind of
>> way, reducing people to vectors greed related, thus determining my circles.
>> So I do my best to avoid being Gollum ;-) PGC
> I understand this, but there's another way to look at it. If I am
> against violent cohertion by the state, this means that I want freedom
> for you. I want you to be able to practice your music and art as you
> see fit, charge and make a living from it and be free from fear that
> some storm troopers will show at you doorstep because you are smoking
> something to attain a state of consciousness that the state does not
> approve of, or refusing to give part of your money to the state. And
> let's be honest here, this money is going to be used to fund more
> violence, not help the poor. Violence in the form of real wars, total
> surveillance, drug wars and so on. This is the reality of the world we
> live in now, not some speculation. Rand's work is speculation, and it
> remains to be seen if a radically free society could work.

Is Rand fine with the rich buying up land and water rights and intellectual 
property and 
then getting richer by renting and selling them, while everyone is taxed to arm 
police who 
will protect those property rights?  Is it not violence if it's mere 
intimidation?  I know 
she thinks she is because of her personal experience under communism - but she 
never seems 
to think beyond asserting her opinion.


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