Yeah, let's all pour hate on government and go to Somalia where there isn't any. Maybe the reason there so many self-serving people in government is that no matter what they do there's a big faction that hates them for it - instead of understanding the idea of community and compromise.

Brent

On 11/5/2013 7:42 PM, LizR wrote:
Inline images 1


On 6 November 2013 16:41, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com <mailto:cdemorse...@yahoo.com>> wrote:

    And also distinguish Fascism from Communism. The former is bound to
    nationalism as its core bonding principle; whereas communism had an
    internationalist dimension and framed its core binding arguments in terms of
    class... the workers of the world unite rhetoric. Communist states, in
    practice, were as nationalistic as any other polity, but Communism the
    ideology paid lip service to an ideal of internationalism and international
    class struggle.
    In the end all systems devolve into the same basic repeating pattern of:
    those who manage to amass the power rule and continue to perpetuate their
    rule across generations, until some force majeure derails the gravy train.
    The world has been and always will be ruled by psychopaths, because all
    systems in the end become parasitized by successful psychopaths. And once a
    system is thoroughly parasitized by the crime families of the times, it
    almost invariably remains corrupted -- even when reformed.
    As long as successful psychopaths can slash & burn & murder their way to the
    top undetected (in fact often much admired) and as long as power is the
    organizing principle of human affairs we will remain essentially a prison
    planet -- IMO.
    What would really alter the course of history -- IMO -- would be an
    inexpensive and widely available sure fire test for identifying those
    lacking empathy, mirror neurons, and other characterizing traits of
    sociopaths (with psychopaths being the more virulent and more murderous
    subset). Imagine a world were psychopaths cannot accede to positions of
    power in government, industry, finance, academia, etc. because a simple test
    accurately identifies them.
    We -- all of us really and almost without break for all history -- suffer
    under misrule by organized psychopaths who invariably control the vertices
    of power and use it to ensure that they remain in power, long term.
    But no matter -- MWI -- there has to be some reality where psychopaths are
    treated as the diseased individuals they are and given help to overcome
    their affliction... now how to get the current "me" into that reality stream
    :)
    -Chris


    -----Original Message-----
    From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
    [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>]
    On Behalf Of meekerdb
    Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 6:10 PM
    To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
    Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

    One needs to distinguish Fascism and Nazism.  Fascism bound the nation-state
    into a super-organism. Nazism added a mystic racism about blood (volk) and
    soil, Christianity and anti-semitism.  There were fascist political
    philosophers who made rational arguments for fascism.  The Nazis were a cult
    from the start.

    Brent

    On 11/5/2013 4:54 PM, spudboy...@aol.com <mailto:spudboy...@aol.com> wrote:
    > As brent meeker quoated mussolini, we can call it corporatism, or
    > plutocracy. The thing about nazi corporatism is that the nation
    > becomes the race. A belief that somehow humans rise directly out of
    > the soil from the land.  The market influence thing seems right, hence the
    triumph of crony capitalism in american politics.
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy <multiplecit...@gmail.com
    <mailto:multiplecit...@gmail.com>>
    > To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com
    <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>>
    > Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 7:52 am
    > Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World
    >
    > Regarding government totalitarianism in Nazi terms: Carl Schmitt
    > reasoned that corporations have the potential to become "states". If
    > the government doesn't keep their authority in check, they will enslave
    people and government through market influence.
    >
    >
    > We're perhaps still running "dominance over reason" pretty much
    > everywhere in the traditional colonial style... A few months ago the
    > similarity of foundations and of legal justifications for exceptional
    > powers ("state of emergency" Patriot, NDAA, secret Camps, limitless
    > surveillance etc.) between international politics to political philosophy
    driving Nazi Germany struck me.
    >
    >
    > Carl Schmitt focused a lot of this for the Nazis in his writings. Now,
    > I am not equating what is going on today with Germany then; that would
    > be too quick and simplistic. Even if Wikipedia cannot reflect the
    > nuances of his writing in German, it's still worth checking out his
    > "work" section summary on Wikipedia and to ask ourselves: how much
    > more civilized have we become since then? To what extent, have we
    > really turned a page on this "dominance model of hierarchical politics"
    that the Nazis developed into the 20th century; and re-branded that as
    "globalized freedom striving"?
    >
    > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schmitt
    >
    >
    > I'm not so sure we completely got rid of Nazi philosophy. I wonder if
    > John Clark would consider this a philosophical contribution to the
    > 20th century, lol! This philosophy does seem to have "real
    > consequences felt by everybody". PGC
    >
    >
    >
    > On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 7:21 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com
    <mailto:lizj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
    > On 5 November 2013 17:11,  <spudboy...@aol.com 
<mailto:spudboy...@aol.com>> wrote:
    > I would put marxism and fascism close together and not polar
    > opposites. Because Marxists claim that they are for the proles does
    > not really mean that they are. It just means that they try to BS
    > people with this claim. In fact, there are no, non mixed economies
    > anymore, in the us, china, and russia. Its all a two classsystem of
    > rule by party leaders, and their pet billionaires. Cronyism. Marxism
    > killed 40 million people  in China, during the great leap forwards. It was
    never deliberate, but doing practices that ruined crop growth, by following
    party eddicts.
    >
    >
    > You're conflating the works of Karl Marx with people who paid lip
    > service to them. Do you uncritically believe that (say) America has a free
    market economy because they say so?


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