Brent – Community & compromise are noble ideals, but in practice the
exercise of power & realpolitick – as it has in fact been practiced through
history – has far more to do with facilitating and providing legal cover for
predation and securing unwarranted privilege for a reigning elite… be they
generals, bankers, comrades, or cardinals. Does it matter?

I agree it does come down to community, but community for whom exactly? Is
this community reserved for a small privileged elite dominating the
resources of a planet being driven over the cliff into the greatest
extinction since the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event? 

Or, if not how far does the circle of community extend? How far till “they”
become identified as the “other” and the world is seen through the optic of
us and them?

I agree with your premise that community and compromise are both virtuous
and necessary – on a world with 7+ billion people rocketing towards 9
billion (personally don’t see how the bio systems of the planet will hold up
under our relentless onslaught so I have my doubts we will get there). 

I don’t have a particular focus on government as the repository of evil; any
system of great power will become an engine of corruption. It is the
concentration of power into small entrenched (and often generationally
inherited) elites that creates the kinds of social, cultural, economic
structures that promote a rapacious, non-thinking yeast like behavior in
large masses of people. 

It has always been and remains true that power corrupts and great power
corrupts greatly. Look at the arc of culture after culture… from Pharaonic
Egypt, Sumeria, the Olmecs, the Indus river valley civilizations onwards…
the same basic story line of ever increasing concentrations of power as a
centralizing elite became ascendant, followed by stagnant periods preceding
ultimate decline and collapse. The elites of all the ages, over and over
again like some kind of ground hog day joke on us all become cut off
insulated and shielded from reality by layers of servants, courtiers and
advisors. Look at the feeble minded inbred aristocracies of the ancien
régimes of the various courts of Europe immediately preceding WWI, or Hitler
(and the Nazi elites) believing almost to the end that things were going
well on the Eastern front… or the court of Louis XVI.

Power cuts itself off from reality and those who wield it become drunk with
power; it goes to their heads.

Power IS the great social problem. As entrenched power becomes established
in any culture that cultures days – and brilliance -- are surely numbered
for power will devour itself as it crushes those unlucky beneath and sucks
the air out of everything.




[] On Behalf Of meekerdb
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World


Yeah, let's all pour hate on government and go to Somalia where there isn't
any.  Maybe the reason there so many self-serving people in government is
that no matter what they do there's a big faction that hates them for it -
instead of understanding the idea of community and compromise.


On 11/5/2013 7:42 PM, LizR wrote:

 Inline images 1


On 6 November 2013 16:41, Chris de Morsella <> wrote:

And also distinguish Fascism from Communism. The former is bound to
nationalism as its core bonding principle; whereas communism had an
internationalist dimension and framed its core binding arguments in terms of
class... the workers of the world unite rhetoric. Communist states, in
practice, were as nationalistic as any other polity, but Communism the
ideology paid lip service to an ideal of internationalism and international
class struggle.
In the end all systems devolve into the same basic repeating pattern of:
those who manage to amass the power rule and continue to perpetuate their
rule across generations, until some force majeure derails the gravy train.
The world has been and always will be ruled by psychopaths, because all
systems in the end become parasitized by successful psychopaths. And once a
system is thoroughly parasitized by the crime families of the times, it
almost invariably remains corrupted -- even when reformed.
As long as successful psychopaths can slash & burn & murder their way to the
top undetected (in fact often much admired) and as long as power is the
organizing principle of human affairs we will remain essentially a prison
planet -- IMO.
What would really alter the course of history -- IMO -- would be an
inexpensive and widely available sure fire test for identifying those
lacking empathy, mirror neurons, and other characterizing traits of
sociopaths (with psychopaths being the more virulent and more murderous
subset). Imagine a world were psychopaths cannot accede to positions of
power in government, industry, finance, academia, etc. because a simple test
accurately identifies them.
We -- all of us really and almost without break for all history -- suffer
under misrule by organized psychopaths who invariably control the vertices
of power and use it to ensure that they remain in power, long term.
But no matter -- MWI -- there has to be some reality where psychopaths are
treated as the diseased individuals they are and given help to overcome
their affliction... now how to get the current "me" into that reality stream

-----Original Message-----
[] On Behalf Of meekerdb

Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

One needs to distinguish Fascism and Nazism.  Fascism bound the nation-state
into a super-organism. Nazism added a mystic racism about blood (volk) and
soil, Christianity and anti-semitism.  There were fascist political
philosophers who made rational arguments for fascism.  The Nazis were a cult
from the start.


On 11/5/2013 4:54 PM, wrote:
> As brent meeker quoated mussolini, we can call it corporatism, or
> plutocracy. The thing about nazi corporatism is that the nation
> becomes the race. A belief that somehow humans rise directly out of
> the soil from the land.  The market influence thing seems right, hence the
triumph of crony capitalism in american politics.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy <>
> To: everything-list <>
> Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 7:52 am
> Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World
> Regarding government totalitarianism in Nazi terms: Carl Schmitt
> reasoned that corporations have the potential to become "states". If
> the government doesn't keep their authority in check, they will enslave
people and government through market influence.
> We're perhaps still running "dominance over reason" pretty much
> everywhere in the traditional colonial style... A few months ago the
> similarity of foundations and of legal justifications for exceptional
> powers ("state of emergency" Patriot, NDAA, secret Camps, limitless
> surveillance etc.) between international politics to political philosophy
driving Nazi Germany struck me.
> Carl Schmitt focused a lot of this for the Nazis in his writings. Now,
> I am not equating what is going on today with Germany then; that would
> be too quick and simplistic. Even if Wikipedia cannot reflect the
> nuances of his writing in German, it's still worth checking out his
> "work" section summary on Wikipedia and to ask ourselves: how much
> more civilized have we become since then? To what extent, have we
> really turned a page on this "dominance model of hierarchical politics"
that the Nazis developed into the 20th century; and re-branded that as
"globalized freedom striving"?
> I'm not so sure we completely got rid of Nazi philosophy. I wonder if
> John Clark would consider this a philosophical contribution to the
> 20th century, lol! This philosophy does seem to have "real
> consequences felt by everybody". PGC

> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 7:21 AM, LizR <> wrote:
> On 5 November 2013 17:11,  <> wrote:
> I would put marxism and fascism close together and not polar
> opposites. Because Marxists claim that they are for the proles does
> not really mean that they are. It just means that they try to BS
> people with this claim. In fact, there are no, non mixed economies
> anymore, in the us, china, and russia. Its all a two classsystem of
> rule by party leaders, and their pet billionaires. Cronyism. Marxism
> killed 40 million people  in China, during the great leap forwards. It was
never deliberate, but doing practices that ruined crop growth, by following
party eddicts.
> You're conflating the works of Karl Marx with people who paid lip
> service to them. Do you uncritically believe that (say) America has a free
market economy because they say so?


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