From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 9:03 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

 

On 11/7/2013 8:46 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:

 

 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:34 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

 

On 11/7/2013 5:47 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:

 

 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 2:12 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

 

On 11/6/2013 6:42 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:

Either all humans enjoy human rights or none do. 


>> Human rights are a human invention.  

 

Yes… and so what. 


So they're not the same in every society or at all times.  So your
all-or-nothing assertion is false.

 

Okay, now I understand you. Yes, of course it is a fluid contextual concept.
The idea of natural human rights is relatively modern with an origin I would
guess in the ferment before the French Revolution “Liberté, égalité,
fraternité” and specifically the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the
Citizen (1789) with passage quoted from Wikipedia 


The Greeks had the idea of political rights - but mainly just for adult male
citizens.  The Magna Carta created the right to trial by a jury of your
peers.  Locke and Bentham wrote earlier and the U.S. revolution preceded the
French revolution.

 

And Hammurabi introduced the first known codified laws. The Chinese invented
the idea of a system based on merit. All of these were attempts to regulate
the arbitrary nature of  tyranny. It’s been a long arc. 






For liberté : "Liberty consists of being able to do anything that does not
harm others: thus, the exercise of the natural rights of every man or woman
has no bounds other than those that guarantee other members of society the
enjoyment of these same rights.”

For égalité: “The law "must be the same for all, whether it protects or
punishes. All citizens, being equal in its eyes, shall be equally eligible
to all high offices, public positions and employments, according to their
ability, and without other distinction than that of their virtues and
talents."


The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as
the poor, to sleep under the bridges, to beg in the streets, and
to steal bread.
        -- Anatole France

LOL… yes!, Absolutely, hypocrisy… the constant companion of humanity. 



fraternité: Sits off by itself a little. Our modern word solidarity perhaps
expresses some of it. We all have a moral obligation to each other; we –
speaking for myself and how I try to live, not always successfully J -- all
are each other’s brothers and sisters and as well we have moral bonds with
this planet that is our life home. Fraternité is the antithesis of greed.

While not exclusively French – the ferment was happening in several places –
this concept and ideal for me marks the beginning of the modern era… with
all of its peaks achieved by genius, creative reason and the mysterious
something upon which inspiration flows and deep dark totalitarian episodes
as well.. and the insane burning through the planets resource treasure
troves in a hundred years…. Go, go, go!

 

Either we all enjoy human rights or none of us do. 


>> So if Florida repeals it's law giving the right to "stand your ground",
we will all be living in a tyranny?

 

I am not sure I get the point you are trying to make? As far as it matter my
opinion on “stand your ground” laws and those who advocate for them is: that
anybody who believes it is okay to murder another human being because they
feel threatened is an utter asshole. 

 






Either we all have free speech or none of us really do – if it can be taken
away.


>>?? Of course it can be taken away - unless you subscribe to some mystic or
supernatural view of rights.

 

?? Hehe I must have deleted the last part of that sentence before sending.
What I meant to finish was that: if rights can be taken away from some, then
they can be potentially taken away from anyone. As soon as we allow for a
mechanism to disenfranchise we have opened up the pathway for a system to
become corrupted and controlled by criminal syndicates. 

This is a difficult issue in society, because we do need some kind of means
of protecting ourselves form violent predators and criminality (not the
trivial BS but real and dangerous criminality). We do need a means of
disenfranchising individuals of their rights; of throwing them into prison –
if absolutely necessary (not like in our country were we are prison happy).
I am not naïve, but as soon as we open up these means by which a person can
be disenfranchised we have opened a potential exploit – to use a hacking
term – for criminal syndicates to use in order to gain entry into positions
where they can begin consolidating their control of the body politic; of the
judicial system. 

Stripping people of their rights is a necessary evil. In the USA people’s
rights are stripped away by secret judges, in secret courts, interpreting
secret laws and reviewing secret evidence.  Somehow I doubt that this is
what was intended by blind justice.

I agree – rights are only enjoyed as long as they can be defended from
predacious criminal syndicates and the psychopaths who rule them. Power and
the determination of who exercises it and how it is applied is at the center
of the ills of our world. 

Chris



Brent

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

Reply via email to