On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 10:05 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > On 11/10/2013 12:29 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > As I said before, I am agnostic on this issue for the following reasons: > > - I am not educated in climate science and I am sufficiently educated > in science to understand that it would take years of full-time effort > to get to a point where I could judge the merit of climate science > research findings by myself -- even there I would probably have to > become an insider, because I understand that a lot of key data is > never made publicly available; > - I am sufficiently knowledgable of complex systems to be skeptical of > the predictive power of any complex systems model at our current level > of sophistication; > - The issue became so heavily politicised that it is basically not > reasonable to trust news reporting on either side of it. > > I am aware of the 5th IPCC report and I am also aware of claims by > reputable climate scientists that the models' predictions appear to be > deviating increasingly from the observables: > > http://judithcurry.com/2013/10/30/implications-for-climate-models-of-their-disagreement-with-observations/ > > > Are you aware that Judith Curry was on the Berkley Earth team to resolve the > question of whether the earth is actually warming. She and Richard Muller > had been critical of the analyses performed by NOAA, Hadley, CRU, and GISS. > When the new analysis, which met all the past criticisms, confirmed all the > previous conclusions, she quit the team and shifted her criticism from "it's > not happening" to "it's not predictable". Notice that means it could be a > lot worse than predicted too - but the Deniers and FUDers never mention > that.
I've been around long enough to know that she could possibly describe the same sequence of events in a way that makes her look good and her opponents bad. I am more interested in the graphs. > I am not invested in disproving global warming. I like to think I am > scientifically-minded, so I accept reality whatever it is. I hope it > is wrong. I suspect some people want it to be true. > > > Yes, you're the perfect example of the success of the Deniers FUD campaign. Maybe, but I would be more confident that I was witnessing a serious scientific debate if people were not using terms like "Deniers" and "FUD campaign". > 98% of all climate scientists agree that AGW is happening and it will have > bad consequences. This is a badly disguised argument from authority. It's precisely phrases like "98% of all climate scientists..." that triggered my BS alarms in this issue. > But you're aware of skeptical scientists, like Judith > Curry (who are given TV time on Faux News), so it's a toss-up. It's been > heavily politicized - by money from the fossil fuel companies - so no news > can be trusted. You're not expert enough to read the scientific literature > - so you're agnostic. This may be the case. > You *suspect* some people want it to be true??? Well I'm almost sure. > In other words you suspect > some academics of wanting to trash the world economy for vague, unexpressed > personal reasons. I wasn't referring to the academics, nor suggesting wrong-doings. Some people strongly dislike capitalism and take pleasure in the possibility that it could be destructive for the environment. There's a sort of moral reward for them in that. Notice that I'm not saying that they are wrong. They could be right. I am saying that they may be biased. > But you don't suspect the Koch brothers, Exxon, BP, Faux > News, the Discovery Institute, the MacArthur Foundation, and a host of > right-wing think tanks of wanting it to be false AND paying a lot of PR > firms to obfuscate the issue. Of course I suspect that too. In fact I'm essentially sure that they are doing all that. But this doesn't mean that the global warming models are correct. Telmo. > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.