On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 1:48 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 11/10/2013 9:25 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 1:37 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10 November 2013 08:13, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/9/2013 1:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>> Tegmark thinks he will survive, if the gun works sufficiently well. if
>>> not he might degrade and eventually ... die. This makes no sense to me. It
>>> is annoying, but we can degrade a lot, yet we can't die (with just comp,
>>> or, ITSM, with just the quantum MWI). With comp, we can expect jump, and
>>> "consciousness phase transition", though.
>>> Aside from not finding myself the oldest person on the planet, I see a
>>> problem with quantum immortality in that quantum mechanics is time-reverse
>>> invariant. So I should be 'past immortal' also. But as Mark Twain said, "I
>>> do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions
>>> and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest
>>> inconvenience from it." If we are what our brains do it is easy to see why
>>> we should live from past (low entropy) to future (higher entropy), be born
>>> and die.
>>> Leaving aside time reversibility (which I am myself rather hot on)
>> for a moment, if you're quantum immortal you can only expect to
>> *eventually* find yourself the oldest person. Give it time. You have to
>> go through the bit beforehand beforehand...
> Let's say the average life expectancy is a not infinite, but some very
> large number, like a google plex years. If you were to draw a ball at
> random from an urn that had a googleplex balls in it, each with its unique
> number inscribed on it, would you be surprised if the number was less than
> That is found to be less than 100 is surprising to a lot of people who
> consider quantum immortality, but it shouldn't be for a few reasons. One's
> statistical measure decreases over time. This is easiest to see in the
> quantum suicide experiment, where each pull of the trigger cuts one's
> measure in half. Imagine someone who did this every day of their life,
> their measure over time would be an infinite serious with a finite (not
> infinite) sum. Just like 3.333333 is a sum of an infinite number of
> numbers 3 + 0.3 + 0.003 ... nonetheless, it is still less than 4. If one's
> measure diminishes geometrically as they live to ever increasingly absurd
> lifetimes 200 years, 300 years, 400 years, etc., then the same effect is
> the result, and we should not be surprised at drawing a number less than
> So when your measure becomes less than one bit or too small to support
> your experience - you're dead.
When it becomes small enough, then more probable extensions become more
likely. I don't know if it can ever become zero, that would require some
experience which by its definition cannot have a following experience.
Even witnessing an atom bomb going off 1000 feet from you does not
necessarily count, because even that experience could continue as seen from
someone awaking from what turned out to be a simulation.
> The other reason we should not be surprised is that we have no idea how
> old we really are. Let's say heaven is real and all people live eternally.
> Then probabilistically this moment you are experiencing now is infinitely
> more likely to be a moment of perfect recall of this moment of life on
> earth (from heaven) rather than your life as the first time you lived it.
> In other words, if heaven exists, then you are almost surely already in
> it. Your age is some infinite number, and you have recalled this moment an
> infinite number of times.
> Nietzsche's eternal return.
Although not quite, for there may still be novel experience in such an
eternal life besides those that involve recall of the first life. But
then, who is to say that this is the first or only life of that eternal
> But is it heaven, or is it hell?
> "Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the
> dream that their souls are separate and self-existing
> entities. Their heart still clings to Self. They are anxious
> about heaven and they seek the pleasure of Self in heaven.
> Thus they cannot see the bliss of righteousness of the
> immortality of truth.' Selfish ideas appear in man's mind
> due to his conception of Self and craving for existence."
> --- Siddhartha Gautama
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