On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:54, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
"So what would you suggest as a replacement? The scientific method
is, to paraphrase Winston Churchill on democracy, the worst system
we have apart from all the others we've tried."
Following your analogy. when the the media, and the politicians of
majority parties form a coalition to defend their own interests,
then you can not have access to the information. You are governed by
a collection of liars and simulators. There is no democracy.
When the science and their media is dominated by a single coalition
united in the mutual interest to increase their budget and they have
the communication means of internet to coordinate in this effort,
then there is no science.
I propose the separation of science and state.
Yes. And that is what is done normally in a democracy. When science is
not separated from politics, you get pseudo-science at the top. In
fact you get a religious state. Politicians can consult experts, but
have to be careful not taking them too much seriously.
Now, about climate, my opinion, since always, is that we have accessed
to only one planet, at least for some time, and so we must avoid any
irreversible actions *when* possible.
Henry Ford in the early 1900 explained already that by using hemp in
place of steel and oil to make car, we would allow a sustainable
economy, while by using oil, we create a larger and larger imbalance.
Given the Hemp alternative, we should not have even begun to use oil,
or in a more reasonable proportion, and should have continue with
Hemp, as we have done the preceding centuries. Of course the oil
barons thought differently, and invented the myth that Hemp (cannabis)
is a dangerous plant. A myth which has been debunked since the start.
Brent advocates democracy, and I go with him on this. But if their is
a climate change, it might be due to the failure of democracy to
prevent big corporatist lies.
Bruno
2013/11/12 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>
2013/11/12 LizR <lizj...@gmail.com>
On 12 November 2013 14:04, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Every science whose conclusions have effects in politics has a high
risk of being manipulated. In the URSS and here. From Anthropology
to long term Meteorology to everything in the middle. The one that
does not realize that is poor fool who does not know how the world
works and has replaced with all his innocent stupidity the fairy
tales of the past with the fairy tales of supposed sciences.
Yes of course.
If you read the mails of the East Anglia Climategate scandal, One of
the main concern of the Warmists were about to keep in control over
the peer reviewing mechanism of the main scientific magazines Long
interchanges of mails were devoted to talk about stablishing
barriers in the peer reviewed magazines by perverting the PR
mechanisms.
The fact is that peer reviewing is not a guaranty, on the contraty.
It acts as an ideological filter rather than as a quality filter in
every discipline in which politics and scientists benefit from
mutual cooperation by interchanging money for ideological ammunition.
So what would you suggest as a replacement? The scientific method
is, to paraphrase Winston Churchill on democracy, the worst system
we have apart from all the others we've tried.
You might like to consider that hurricanes and bush fires and rising
seas and melting glaciers can't be influenced by political opinion,
and it would take a huge effort to generate the evidence coming in
from all over the world as part of some vast conspiracy. We're
forever hearing about the wildest storms, the highest (and lowest)
temperatures on record, the greatest floods and droughts and so on.
Is it just possible that the overwhelming mountain of evidence
indicates, maybe, something is really going on?
(And by the way, supposing there is no global warming and we go
ahead and develop sustainable power sources for no reason whatsoever
before the oil runs out - won't that just be awful?)
You better read the mails of the two climategate scandal and
conform a better opinion about the matter than with the bush fires
and hurricanes that the sanitary towell sellers tell you in your
dumb box. You can see how a conspiracy of interests push truth away
and replace it with half truths. That is happening since the human
learn to talk and socialize. When the whole science is perverted
because all the laboratories are a single virtual laboratory, all
the model simulations talk together to to adjust their parameters to
reach the same conclussions (up to the decimal level) . When the
measures of tree growth is made by hungry russians that are ansious
to get his money and depend on western "scientists" that need their
next year grant from politicians that want to see reasons for giving
them millions of dollars, Then there is nothing that may resemble
the scientific method. It is just bare humans doing whathever they
can for their primary concerns: their famillies, their personal
careers and their ambitions as ever in History. But in some other
cases is even more: international crime
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