Indeed. I look at things a bit different, perhaps. then yourself. I see it, us, 
as being set against obliteration versus existence. 

Mitch


-----Original Message-----
From: Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 12, 2013 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World


Thus said, because there are eternal laws, there are eternal truths. For the 
materialists, Konrad Lorenz said something extraordinarily profound that 
connect two universes of knowledge: The Kantian apriori of knowledge have been 
inserted in our brain/mind/soul by evolution in the form of intuitions, 
processing of the senses  and other instinctive elements without which not only 
knowledge but existence would be impossible.  They are US in a literal sense.


That means that the eternal truths are around us, but primarily also  in 
ourselves, in this instinctive knowledge gained trough evolution, about 
ourselves, about others and about the world. It includes from the very basic: 
the perception of space and time, that Roger talk about from time to time, to  
the commons sense to the the highest truths about what is good and what is bad.




2013/11/12  <spudboy...@aol.com>

I agree and understand, Alberto, with your elegy.
 
Mitch



-----Original Message-----
From: Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 12, 2013 6:42 am
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World


To spudboy:


Reason alone does`n move to anything, not even to knowledge. If you think that 
your passions are bad for looking for the truth, you are wrong. What you must 
say is that some passions are an obstacle for other higher passions, for 
example the passion of using the reason to reach the truth.


But truth is ever constitutionally instrumental, it is ever passional, because 
the ultimate arbiter  of truth in the most deep of our mind (brain if you like) 
is a switch that is activated by different stimulus that are unavoidably 
passional, because that is in our own nature, architecture of the mind, or 
whathever you may call it, in the light of experience, philosophy or 
evolutionary science, the ultimate legitimizer of truth is passional. 


Or in physico-mathematical terms, truth is whathever that maintain us, and ours 
away from entropic obliteration,




2013/11/12 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>




On 12 Nov 2013, at 06:23, Chris de Morsella wrote:



 
 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 7:43 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

 
 

On 11 Nov 2013, at 18:49, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:





A Grand Council of Truth?

 

 

>>Certainly not. Honesty is not "knowing truth". It is just being able to 
>>correct oneself when being shown wrong. It is very simple, if they were not 
>>jealousy, vanity, pride, and things like that.
 
Good point… but we are wrapped up in these other emotions and often driven by 
them, some more than others for sure, but all of us – if we are honest with 
ourselves -- to some degree on some occasions (no shame & no blame) We are so 
wrapped up in all of this that it drives us to hotly deny that anything of the 
sort could possibly be so; we cannot even begin admitting to it. Naturally 
there is a whole range of personality types along the spectrum; perhaps some 
humans have transcended it all… they say Buddha did, but the rest of us to one 
degree or another suffer from our own blind failings.
It is a struggle within sometimes to not fall into these all too easy to fall 
into habits and their blind unthinking way of supplying the mind with readymade 
answers. This very quick, but unthinking mechanism makes sense in a field 
survival situation, where there is no time for thought to slow down response. 
Just some cardinal trigger and there is an immediate amplification of the 
signal in the brain and an immediate zoom to the fore of our minds. Often, 
especially in situations, such as can develop on internet discussion groups, 
primitive instincts take over – I have seen it, so have you, so has everyone 
here. Passion can drive instinctive behavioral modes to the fore. Re-learning 
the inner being living inside the mind is rather much a lifelong pursuit – for 
after all we are a moving target, and if we do not keep a certain vigilance we 
all risk falling into habitual modes of mind.






You are right. I think that biological evolution oscillates all the time 
between the selfishness (the self and his/her passions) and cooperation (long 
term sensible and reasonable action). This comes from the tension between the 
1p and the 3p (Bp & p and Bp). It is very complex, and related to the paradox 
of theology: If everything is solved, we can as well kill ourself. There is no 
simple solution, and more than one life is not enough. The correct 
contemplation-level is hard to grasp. But Buddha got it ... allegedly.


Bruno













 

 





And, you already know where I am going with this. One night, while dining at a 
restaurant, a good one, the High Reasoner, meets with an old friend to discuss 
the new FIFA rules issued for the World Cup. The friend slides over a closed 
sports magazine. "Have a look at this article in the middle, here." Inside the 
magazine is a rather thick envelope.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 11, 2013 3:06 am
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

 

On 11 Nov 2013, at 01:27, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:





Ok, but this is a technique for priming the intellectual pump. If it produces 
nothing good, nothing powerful, then this method would be a complete failure.

 

It seems to me that this works very well, as long as the society is below some 
level of corruption, in which case you can be misinfoirmed, and by not knowing 
it and being honest, you spread the lies and this leads to problem soon or 
later. Problems comes from the liars, but also from the people who have been 
lied. It is very often hard to delineate them.

 

Bruno

 

 

 





-----Original Message-----
From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 10, 2013 2:49 pm
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

 

On 09 Nov 2013, at 19:09, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:





I am emphasizing having governments print out (Keynes style) absolutely, 
colossal, amounts of cash, as a reward for coming up with excellent disease 
treatments and cures, human solar system tours, and clean energy solution, 
environmental remediation. If the banks won't fund researchers, then private 
equity will, if private equity won't then a million contributors-open 
source-will, provided they get a cut of the reward offered by a government 
prize. I wouldn't be shocked if you, Professor, Marchal, might summon up 25 
ECU's in exchange for receiving 3000 ECU's or Golden Yuans, in payment, 5 years 
later.  

 

 

Only if this reflects some honest contracts.

 

Honesty is not just "moral", it is something which elevates a lot the real 
value of money. It generates trust. 

 

Be honest. 

If you don't try to be honest for the calm of your conscience, do it for the 
wealth of your children.

 

Today big corporations are based on lies. That's the problem.

 

Bruno

 

 

 



http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

 

 

 

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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

 

 

 

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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

 

 

 
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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



 




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-- 
Alberto.

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