Simple. Shooting yourself with a gun or whatever means you use to end your
life in one universe does not guarranttee that you do not grow in all other
universes. Unless the laws of physics differ across the multiverse, which I
understand to be incorrect, your copies will grow old and die in every
universe.


On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> 2013/11/12 Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com>
>
>> Every one of the perhaps inifinite copies of you will grow old and die in
>> less than 150 years.
>> There is no quantum immortality
>>
>>
> Well it's cool asserting things... but you should develop more, all I'm
> saying is that if MWI is true, the argument follows. It's clear that if you
> use other premisses it follows or it doesn't, but without knowing more I
> don't know, but as you seems sure, please develop. Plus I'm not arguing
> that MWI is true (or that QI is true for that matter), just following the
> consequences if MWI is true.
>
> Quentin
>
>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/11/12 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
>>>
>>>>  On 11/12/2013 1:37 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/11/12 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
>>>>
>>>>>  On 11/12/2013 1:02 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/11/12 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  On 11/12/2013 12:45 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2013/11/12 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  On 11/12/2013 12:23 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is ASSA, and I find that absurd, there is no absolute
>>>>>>> probability of being alive, probability is only meaningful between two
>>>>>>> moments...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  But there's a probability of being alive at time t in the future,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  This is ASSA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and that can become arbitrarily small, and in fact it is arbitrarily
>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  If absolute measure makes sense, then your absolute measure is
>>>>>> always decreasing, still in MWI, as there is always a next moment (which
>>>>>> will be as *real* as the previous one), I don't see how ASSA is relevant
>>>>>> for the question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I guess it depends on how you value future states.  If only those
>>>>>> you exist in matter then you can ignore the ASSA.  No need for life
>>>>>> insurance.  No concern about global warming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  That does not follow... RSSA is moment to moment... If you have a
>>>>> gun in front of you and you shoot in your head and if MWI is true, there
>>>>> will be more branches where you are crippled than where you are perfectly
>>>>> safe (and a hell of a lot more where you're dead, but *we don't count 
>>>>> where
>>>>> you're not*).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  But that's part of what bothers me about this idea.  How
>>>>> crippled/brain-damaged can you be and still count as a continuation?  Are
>>>>> there degrees of continuation?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  As long as you still feel you, that counts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If so, why can't the degrees asymptote to zero?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>  It is, reread my previous message, there is a continuum of such
>>>> continuations. The one that don't count are the one where nothing is left
>>>> from you. I would say also, there is a continuum but by RSSA, nearest
>>>> continuation should have higher probability.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - so all rational decisions will be based on assuming it becomes
>>>>>>> zero.  Right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I don't see how decisions come into play here, rational decisions
>>>>>> depends on the one taking them... I would rationally choose to minimize 
>>>>>> arm
>>>>>> for me (so as not to put my life in jeopardy), because if MWI is true 
>>>>>> *and*
>>>>>> with RSSA, me in front on a shotgun, will likely result me being crippled
>>>>>> while not dead with a hell lot more probability than being perfectly safe
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  But most such events, like being shot with a shotgun, are
>>>>>> essentially classical which implies that your continuations depend on
>>>>>> extremely improbable events
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Sure, but the point is *αΊ—here is a continuation*; that's all what is
>>>>> needed for the argument to follow.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  "There is a continuation" seems to slough over what counts as a
>>>>> continuation and whether we should care about it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  There is a continuum of continuations, the point is there is, so you
>>>> either argue MWI is false, but your argument is pointeless if MWI is true,
>>>> that's the way it is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well I'm certainly not dogmatically assuming MWI.  In fact I'm testing
>>>> whether it leads to absurdities.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure, the point is that if MWI is true, the argument follows.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If the only continuations are quite different from what you think of
>>>>> as Quentin Anciaux, do they still count?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  The only thing that count is 1st POV...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So *you* Quentin Anciaux (incidentally, how do pronounce that?) don't
>>>> necessarily continue.  It is just that there is a continuation of 1p POVs.
>>>> So we're down to the question of what constitutes a 1p POV.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I know what is my own, don't know for you, but I assume you do know it
>>> for yourself.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  And I don't think you can just rely on the continuity of Hilbert
>>>>> space evolution because the time scale of that evolution can be much 
>>>>> faster
>>>>> than the sequences of conscious thought.  So as far QM goes you could
>>>>> evolve from Quentin Anciaux to Neo (or to Brent Meeker) in a millisecond.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> - Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns, e.g. you wake up from having dreamed a
>>>>>> whole life which led to you being shot, or you discover you are just
>>>>>> participating in a simulation in which you were shot, or you're not 
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> Quentin Anciaux, or...  Did you read "Divided by Infinity"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   .... RSSA is of use, ASSA not much at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  So have you bought an annuity for your retirement?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  You confuse things... RSSA is important, and that's why you buy a
>>>>> life insurance.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Life insurance I understand, it is for other people that survive you
>>>>> (in almost all worlds).  But an annuity is for yourself, so that you don't
>>>>> outlive your savings in your retirement.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   So what ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So if you think you will live much longer than the insurance companies
>>>> think you will, you should buy an annuity for your (very) old age.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe we should.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brent
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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