On 13 November 2013 17:20, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 11/12/2013 8:08 PM, LizR wrote:
> On 13 November 2013 17:03, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 11/12/2013 7:28 PM, LizR wrote:
>> On 13 November 2013 16:19, Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Simple. Shooting yourself with a gun or whatever means you use to end
>>> your life in one universe does not guarranttee that you do not grow in all
>>> other universes. Unless the laws of physics differ across the multiverse,
>>> which I understand to be incorrect, your copies will grow old and die in
>>> every universe.
>> I think it would help if you put your comment beneath whatever you were
>> replying to. :)
>> However, assuming I understand what you're saying I will attempt a
>> The laws of physics don't *mandate* growing old and dying, they just
>> make it overwhelmingly likely. But in a multiverse everything happens, even
>> incredibly unlikely things...
>> That's another dubious popularization. Certainly weird things can
>> happen in a QM world. But *everything*? There are still conservation laws,
>> superselection rules, limited speed of signaling. Repeating measurement
>> doesn't produce "every" value, it produces the same eigenvalue as before.
>> Many QM processes are deterministic in one world, c.f.
>> I apologise for my over hasty phraseology. I meant to say everything
> that is physically possible happens - i.e. all physically possible outcomes
> of each (apparently probabalistic) quantum event. I didn't mean to imply
> that *physically impossible* things happen (and it would have been nice
> if you'd done me the courtesy of thinking that perhaps that was what I
> meant, rather than assuming that "oh, she must be spouting dubious
> popularisations!" as you appear to have done.)
> Sorry. Didn't mean to offend. But it's a point that bothers me about a
> lot of these "everything" theories. Yes, they only mean everything that is
> possible - but that could be a big hole in theory when you start to talk
> about really strange things. For example, holographic theory (combined
> with QM) limits the amount of information within a Hubble radius. It's not
> immediately obvious whether that prohibits some evolution of the quantum
> state or not, but it's plausible that it does.
Sorry for overreacting. Obviously one has to go to the equations and see
what they say. In the case of quantum mechanics I believe they say that any
interaction has a continuum of outcomes, so we're immediately dealing with
infinity. David Deutsch has been known to talk about "Harry Potter
universes" in which magic appears to work thanks to quantum uncertainty, so
it seems to me that if you take the multiverse seriously you have an
incredible range of outcomes - none of which violate the various
conservation principles, but some - an infinitesimal sliver - which appear
to. So for example, it's possible that in tiny parts of the multiverse
objects spontaneously materialise from quantum fluctuations - a teapot in
orbit between Earth and Mars, say.
This isn't something I feel very comfortable with, to be honest. Like Blaise
Pascal's "The eternal silence of these infinite spaces terrifies me", I
feel - to say the least - frightened just contemplating the possibility
that everything (including me) is replicated infinitely. It is such a
mind-boggling idea that it seems to utterly dwarf anything I can possibly
do, or even think. Everything has been thought already, an infinite number
of times. Any fiction I may invent has happened somewhere (an infinite
number of times). It's quite - daunting.
Holographic theory indicates that the amount of entropy in a given volume
is less than the entropy of a black hole of the same radius, which I
believe is proportional to the surface area of that black hole. But wasn't
that result contradicted by the recent discovery that there isn't a
granularity to space larger than some minute fraction of the Planck size?
Excuse me I have to go and lie down...
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