On 13 Nov 2013, at 23:09, meekerdb wrote:

On 11/13/2013 10:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 12 Nov 2013, at 18:45, meekerdb wrote:

On 11/12/2013 2:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 12 Nov 2013, at 04:44, meekerdb wrote:


Experience may be like that; everything has 'experience', it's just not human experience and when you stop having human experience you're dead.


Why? If by dying we remember being something different from human, I would still feel like I am surviving. (Amazingly, salvia can lead to such an experience/hallucination).

Yes, if you remember.


OK, here we are at a crucial vexing complex point. To address that question, we should engage in an type of thought experiment, which I have not used in the UDA, although I have use it implicitly at the inspiration level for the mathematical AUDA. It is also sleepy in the dream argument, or in a comp (re)interpretation of Maury's theory of dreams (refuted in his usual interpretation by the experimental testing of the REM dream lucidity).

Those different type of thought experiment involve amnesia of some kind, and certainly ask for some imagination.
It appears also in Saibal Mitra bactracking.

A recurring thema.

But honestly, without mastering the usual "non-amnesic" type of experience, I am not sure it makes sense to even try those more subtle thought experiences. A study of pathological state of consciousness can help probably.

It is related with the renormalization, which simple case is got in the "material" (in the Plotinian sense) Bp & Dt.

The idea here is that the realities in which "you"(the 1-you) don't survive count for nothing in the measure. It is again quasi tautological.

The realities where you survive with some amnesia get a role proportional to *your* ability to recognize yourself in the other. If the usual comp (where you survive integrally with no amnesia, when substituted at some level) is assumed, some thought experience can hint that we might survive at all level of substitution, in possible intermediate non-physical realties (but still arithmetical). The probabilities might even depends on our descendants, which might make them lower or higher through diverse theo/bio-technologies (which might free us from, or freeze us in, the Samsara).




But I don't remember anything earlier than about age 4 and neither do other people I know. Which then implies that we are not past eternal and so it is possible to not be future eternal.

It depends of what you are willing to believe you are, or with what you are willing to identify with. There is a part of intrinsic first personal *choice* here.

Of course I'm willing to believe I was a great and famous king in my previous life - but does that make it so?

I did not say that willing is not enough. But if you recognize yourself through what that king has done, that might be closer to the idea.











Also, with comp, not everything has experience. Only persons, and they need the support of some computational self-reference ability.

And brains provide that support.

Yes.  Locally.
But a brain is itself a persistent relative information pattern belonging to infinities of computations.

But what do those infinities that provide the underlying physics have to do with conscious thoughts, which are (at least mostly) strictly classical and finite?

UDA step 7. Consciousness needs some interval of "time", this needs both the computations, and the FPI.




Reverting to my favorite thought experiment, if I build an AI Mars Rover it will presumably be conscious and have 1p POV. It's AI computations are also supported by an infinity (or very numerous) processes at a lower level. Does that mean it is immmortal?

Yes.


QTI only applies to it in the sense that if it is destroyed, or just turned off, then in the vastness of a multiverse where "everything happens" there must be similar AI with a similar program that continues the state of my Mars Rover. This kind of continuation seems to have nothing to do with consciousness, since you could say the same of any sequence. Saying that it continues a POV seems like an ad hoc assumption.

I don't understand. Why don't you apply the Mars Rover pov, the same conclusion than in step 7?




Why it seems linear and symmetrical remains to be explained (if that is really the case).

Here , "Another Woman"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_XHVdz2uRQ
is a Harlequin movie which illustrates how amnesia can be pleasing/ helpful until the memory come back. It is an "Harlenquin", so no worry: happy ending guarantied :)

Hmm... Identity and amnesia is a frequent theme in the Harlequin series, as you can see by typing "harlequin romance movies amnesia" in youtube.

Ah, so that's where you do your research.

My left brain has learned to listen to my right brain, and I take the data anywhere without shame. Good stories have good dialogs, like Alice said :)


 I never would have thought of looking there. :-)

Actually I remember having read an Harlequin when I was very young, and I was fascinated (In French "Lake, qui es-tu?" ("Lake, who are you?"). It was also on the theme of amnesia and identity. Maybe my questioning even started from there :)

Bruno



http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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