On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 18 Nov 2013, at 14:41, Roger Clough wrote: > > Spinoza, Leibniz and Descartes are completely different on the relationship > between mind and matter See > > http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/substance/#DesSpiLei > > Spinoza was a monist, who believed that mind and matter were one. > > > Are you sure? It seems to me that Spinoza defended what is called today > "neutral monism": the idea that both matter and mind (which are taken as > obviously very different) are coming from one different thing. > Computationalism is neutral monist in that sense, where the "different > thing" is the arithmetical reality. > > > > Descartes believed that mind and matter are totally different > > > OK. But Descartes, imo, became aware of the depth of the rabbit hole this > entails. It is hard to say, because Descartes was limited in his prose by > the authoritarianism of his epoch. I read him in between the lines.
Interesting. I always assumed that Descartes was oblivious to the problems with dualism. But I really like his idea of starting with the cogito. > > Leibniz beleived that mind was a monad or mental aspect of matter. > > > And this makes him still a materialist, by which I mean a believer in some > ontologically independent substance. > > > > Bertrand Ruseell said that there are two forms of knowing: > > a) Knowing scientifically or objectively (knowing by description) > Example: you know who Obama is from the newspapers. > > b) Knowing by acquaintance or experience (knowing subjectively) > Example: you know who Obama is because you have met him. > > > Yes, and such a difference is made very clear in the 1p/3p distinction that > we have to take into account to understand that materialism is eventually > not compatible with mechanism. > It can be translated in arithmetic, and Bertrand Russell's distinction is > well captured by the difference between Bp & p and Bp. Note that this would > not work without the incompleteness result. > > Bruno > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.