Science may never answer the WHY question, but it surely must answer the HOW 
question. Once we know how, we will likely know why? Right now our ability to 
understand the universe has been hampered by insufficient tools to observe and 
analyze what was. But we have become much better over the last 2 decades. What 
we know is that we have not detected intelligence, anywhere close by. My own 
personal guesses or at least what I have been toying with is-just by basing it 
on models scientists know is:
1) God like evolved or arrived as or from a Boltzmann Brain. Technically it 
fits the bill.

2) There likely is an afterlife based on the concept of Storage Area Networks. 
So the self-same data gets written stored and processed, in two different 
geographical locations so the programs, processes, and information are 
preserved. In our case, or life, entire's, case, the local storage that is 
ourselves, is local, and the other site is non-local. The same could be said of 
fleas, mollusks, our own gut bacteria, and giraffes. The inspiration for my 
foolishness, is the combination of the EPR effect combined with the holographic 
theory. I cannot say of String or Loop hypotheses has anything to do with my 
toy model?

Last, the mentioning of the good, Marquis de Sade, brings this old stage tune 
to mind, from the play, Marat-Sade. I don't know if this informs our 
discussion, but the mentioning of Sade caused me to think of Marat-Sade.

 Four years he fought and he fought unafraid
 Sniffing down traitors by traitors betrayed
 Marat in the courtroom
 Marat underground
 Sometimes the otter and sometimes the hound

 Fighting all the gentry and fighting every priest 
 The business man the bourgeois the military beast
 Marat always ready to stifle every scheme  
 Of the sons of the ass licking dying regime
 



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 24, 2013 4:40 am
Subject: Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment




On 24 Nov 2013, at 10:06, LizR wrote:


To be exact it's the belief that no gods exist, i.e. that "theism" is wrong. 
But otherwise it does seem to echo Aristotle and Plato, at least as far as I 
understand them.






Atheism is also the belief in NO afterlife, which is close to not making much 
sense to me (even without comp). This is well illustrated by the french 
philosophers like La Mettrie and Sade, defending the right to do what you want 
in your life (including torturing children and women), as you have only one 
life to profit on. It is part of the origin of the political materialism, 
implemented in both communism and capitalism, and indeed both are aggressive 
with any form of spiritualism, and confuse a rich life with a life of rich.


The big conceptual difference between Aristotle and Plato is that in Aristotle 
there is a belief in a primitive material universe, where for Plato, the 
material universe is a shadow (an emanation, a border, a reflection, a 
projection,...) of something else (the one, God, the universal dream, etc.).


It is the opposition between naturalism (materialism, physicalism), and the 
other conceptions of reality (which can still be rational, like with the antic 
greeks and Indians).


Atheists and Christians are alike. They have the same conception of the creator 
(the first to deny it, the second to believe in it), and the same conception of 
the creation (a material universe). 


The real "religious" debate is about the primitive or not existence of the 
physical reality. Should we search, or not, for a reason behind the physical 
reality?


Bruno




 


On 24 November 2013 04:56, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

 


On 23 Nov 2013, at 14:05, Roger Clough wrote:


   
 
 
 
 
 
Atheism is wish fulfillment.





Yes. Notably. I agree. 


It is the fuzzy belief that the Christian God does not exist, together with the 
belief in the Christian "Matter".
 


The debate between Atheists and Christians hides the deeper debate between 
Aristotle and Plato.


Bruno




 
 
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



 





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