It seems unlikely that the nature of dark matter and dark energy will
 change the ontological status of matter generally. A materialist, for
example, will assume that they are "more of the same" -- but less
interactive, at least with our 5%.


On 25 November 2013 13:08, Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So far left out of this discussion is that the physical reality that we
> observe and derive physical laws for may be only 5% of the universe, the
> other 95% being comprised of Dark Energy and Dark Matter, which are
> actually just placeholders for the unknown.
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 4:53 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/2013 1:32 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 24 Nov 2013, at 10:06, LizR wrote:
>>>
>>>  To be exact it's the belief that no gods exist, i.e. that "theism" is
>>>> wrong. But otherwise it does seem to echo Aristotle and Plato, at least as
>>>> far as I understand them.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Atheism is also the belief in NO afterlife, which is close to not making
>>> much sense to me (even without comp). This is well illustrated by the
>>> french philosophers like La Mettrie and Sade, defending the right to do
>>> what you want in your life (including torturing children and women), as you
>>> have only one life to profit on. It is part of the origin of the political
>>> materialism, implemented in both communism and capitalism, and indeed both
>>> are aggressive with any form of spiritualism, and confuse a rich life with
>>> a life of rich.
>>>
>>> The big conceptual difference between Aristotle and Plato is that in
>>> Aristotle there is a belief in a primitive material universe, where for
>>> Plato, the material universe is a shadow (an emanation, a border, a
>>> reflection, a projection,...) of something else (the one, God, the
>>> universal dream, etc.).
>>>
>>> It is the opposition between naturalism (materialism, physicalism), and
>>> the other conceptions of reality (which can still be rational, like with
>>> the antic greeks and Indians).
>>>
>>> Atheists and Christians are alike. They have the same conception of the
>>> creator (the first to deny it, the second to believe in it), and the same
>>> conception of the creation (a material universe).
>>>
>>> The real "religious" debate is about the primitive or not existence of
>>> the physical reality. Should we search, or not, for a reason behind the
>>> physical reality?
>>>
>>
>> That isn't a problem at all.  It's just like the arguments about the
>> existence of god; first you have to define what you mean by "god" before
>> you can answer whether "god exists" or not. So what is the definition of
>> "physical reality"?  It seems to me that "physical" only adds the concept
>> of shared/public.  But Plato also intended his reality to be shared and
>> public.
>>
>> Brent
>>
>>
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