2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> > If what I said were absurd you would have not responded so quickly and so > seriously. > Sorry if I offended your faith. That was an experiment. > > Oh easy to do that, the first to say is... childish.
> > > > 2013/12/1 Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> >> >> As I said to Telmo talking about sacrifices somewhere above, individual >>> sacrifices are the only way to create trust among non cloning entities. >>> And what higher sacrifice than to negate'what is screaming in his mind, in >>> the universe and in everithing? That is the main sacrifice of the atheists. >>> >> >> Nothing is screaming in my mind, in the universe and everything... I >> sacrifice nothing. >> >> Quentin >> >> >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/1 Samiya Illias <[email protected]> >>> >>>> We exist, then why should we reject the idea of having been created, >>>> just because we are unable to comprehend or define our Creator? Is that not >>>> intellectual dishonesty? >>>> >>>> Samiya >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 01-Dec-2013, at 3:33 AM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> > On 11/30/2013 10:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> >> Brent, >>>> >> >>>> >> I hope you don't mind I re-answer this. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or >>>> Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, >>>> Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares, Artemis, >>>> Asclepius, Athena, Athirat, Athtart, Atlas, Baal, Ba Xian, Bacchus, Balder, >>>> Bast, Bellona, Bergelmir, Bes, Bixia Yuanjin, Bragi, Brahma, Brent, Brigit, >>>> Camaxtli, Ceres, Ceridwen, Cernunnos, Chac, Chalchiuhtlicue, Charun, >>>> Chemosh, Cheng-huang, Clapton, Cybele, Dagon, Damkina (Dumkina), Davlin, >>>> Dawn, Demeter, Diana, Di Cang, Dionysus, Ea, El, Enki, Enlil, Eos, Epona, >>>> Ereskigal, Farbauti, Fenrir, Forseti, Fortuna, Freya, Freyr, Frigg, Gaia, >>>> Ganesha, Ganga, Garuda, Gauri, Geb, Geong Si, Guanyin, Hades, Hanuman, >>>> Hathor, Hecate (Hekate), Helios, Heng-o (Chang-o), Hephaestus, Hera, >>>> Hermes, Hestia, Hod, Hoderi, Hoori, Horus, Hotei, Huitzilopochtli, >>>> Hsi-Wang-Mu, Hygeia, Inanna, Inti, Iris, Ishtar, Isis, Ixtab, Izanaki, >>>> Izanami, Jesus, Juno, Jehovah, Jupiter, Juturna, Kagutsuchi, Kartikeya, >>>> Khepri, Ki, Kingu, Kinich Ahau, Kishar, Krishna, Kuan-yin, Kukulcan, >>>> Kvasir, Lakshmi, Leto, Liza, Loki, Lugh, Luna, Magna Mater, Maia, Marduk, >>>> Mars, Mazu, Medb, Mercury, Mimir, Min, Minerva, Mithras, Morrigan, Mot, >>>> Mummu, Muses, Nammu, Nanna, Nanna (Norse), Nanse, Neith, Nemesis, Nephthys, >>>> Neptune, Nergal, Ninazu, Ninhurzag, Nintu, Ninurta, Njord, Nugua, Nut, >>>> Odin, Ohkuninushi, Ohyamatsumi, Orgelmir, Osiris, Ostara, Pan, Parvati, >>>> Phaethon, Phoebe, Phoebus Apollo, Pilumnus, Poseidon, Quetzalcoatl, Rama, >>>> Re, RheaSabazius, Sarasvati, Selene, Shiva, Seshat, Seti (Set), Shamash, >>>> Shapsu, Shen Yi, Shiva, Shu, Si-Wang-Mu, Sin, Sirona, Sol, Surya, Susanoh, >>>> Tawaret, Tefnut, Tezcatlipoca, Thanatos, Thor, Thoth, Tiamat, Tianhou, >>>> Tlaloc, Tonatiuh, Toyo-Uke-Bime, Tyche, Tyr, Utu, Uzume, Vediovis, Venus, >>>> Vesta, Vishnu, Volturnus, Vulcan, Xipe, Xi Wang-mu, Xochipilli, >>>> Xochiquetzal, Yam, Yarikh, YHWH, Ymir, Yu-huang, Yum Kimil and Zeus. But I >>>> see no reason to believe any of them exist. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> So the question is: do you see a reason to disbelieve all of them? >>>> > >>>> > I didn't say I "disbelieved", I said I saw no reason to believe in >>>> them. I *fail* to believe in them. I think of "belief" as admitting >>>> degrees. I disbelieve in them FAPP, i.e. if I have to act I will act as if >>>> they didn't exist. But I cited the list to contradict your idea that >>>> conceiving of gods makes it harder to disbelieve in God. I think it is the >>>> other way around; it's harder to disbelieve in something undefined. Which >>>> makes me wonder how you can be so dogmatic that fundamental matter does not >>>> exist? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> What if the list just missed the one that exists? >>>> >> >>>> >> As far as I know, honestly, it seems to me that only Ganesh, or >>>> Ganesha, is incompatible with comp. >>>> >> >>>> >> I really love Ganesh, though, perhaps for that very reason. When >>>> kid, Ganesh made his father angry and the angry father cut Ganesh's head, >>>> and threw it away. Her mother was *very* angry, and ordered the father do >>>> find a new head quickly, and the father, in the hurry, cut the head of of >>>> the first elephant passing by, and that is why Ganesh has an elephant head >>>> (which reminds me of the cuttlefish which I love even more). >>>> >> >>>> >> I guess you see the problem with comp. It is a version of the >>>> brain-exchanged thought experience. But is it really contradictory with >>>> comp? That's needs the thought experiences with (degrees of) amnesia, and >>>> addressing the question who are we and how many person really exist. >>>> >> >>>> >> But how could I argue about Ohyamatsumi or RheaSabazius, Tlaloc? I >>>> would need to study their stories to conclude. >>>> >> >>>> >> Also, it looks that list misses the divinities that you can met by >>>> smoking some herb, like the four kanobo Gods, and Daunarani, ... with >>>> tobacco, or simply Maria, you know, the Mother of God, that you can meet >>>> with Salvia (according to the Christian Mazatecs). >>>> >> >>>> >> There is no algorithm capable of deciding of two machines computes >>>> or not the same function, so you can imagine the difficulties with the >>>> nameable non machines, or gods and goddesses. >>>> >> >>>> >> And the big one, cannot be in such a list, I guess. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> We might try to decide on a definition of "atheism", as that >>>> notion is very unclear, and I have rarely obtain a definition on which >>>> atheists agreed. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> It's as clear as the negation of 'theist'. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> But "theist" is not clear. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> My point exactly. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> But if you agree that "theist" is not clear, you agree that >>>> "atheist" is not clear either. >>>> > >>>> > But "theist" is only unclear because you suppose that you can cite >>>> some ancient philosopher as *really* defining "theism". I accept the >>>> modern theory of dictionaries that meanings are defined by usage; and the >>>> usage of "God" is a superperson who created the world, wants to be >>>> worshipped, and judges, rewards and punishes. >>>> > >>>> >> It creates an opposition where I see beliefs everywhere, and good >>>> willing people trying to understand each others, mixed with people who >>>> insult instead. >>>> >> >>>> >> I have many sympathy for many atheists, and I share with them >>>> important ideas, like no artificial magic, occam razor, rationalism, and >>>> the anticleralism, and the "anti-autoritarism" (of the first one), but they >>>> get trapped in* believing* they have solved the theological question, or >>>> trapped in the deny that there was even a question, leading to a form of >>>> "don't ask", which slow down the possible progresses, and becomes an >>>> autoritarist meme by itself. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Some identify "God" with the God of their own culture. In science, >>>> we try to get a concept as independent of human and culture as possible. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> I use "God" in the greek sense of Truth (the one that we can >>>> search about us, or hope or fear, in life and afterlife, whatever it is). >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Except nobody here is speaking Greek. And the Greeks had plenty >>>> of gods that had nothing to do with truth; in fact they were given to >>>> deception. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I was of course alluding to the greek (neo)platonists. They did >>>> invented the God used by both the abramanic cultures (even if terribly >>>> deformed, notably by the abandon of science about it, and the use of >>>> authoritative arguments, by Christians, Muslims, and perhaps by the Jewish >>>> (with Maimonides, to some extent). >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Christianity, specifically Aquinas and Augustine, tried to merge >>>> Greek philosophy into the Jewish Messianic religion of Christianity. But >>>> the abrahamic religions owe far more to the Babylonian, Egyptian, and >>>> Zoroastrian religions than to Greek. >>>> >> >>>> >> OK. But let us not confuse the terrestrial implementation of the >>>> religious process and the true relations that machines can have with truth. >>>> > >>>> > But you are exactly the person confusing them in your writing (if not >>>> your thoughts) by using language of religions to express simple >>>> mathematical ideas. >>>> > >>>> > Brent >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> As I said, thanks to Babbage, Turing, Post, Church, discoveries of >>>> the universal numbers, we get an interesting "simple" Number Theology, >>>> which can be used as an etalon in comparative theology. >>>> >> >>>> >> In the first match Plato 1 and Aristotle 0. >>>> >> >>>> >> It is not the last match in the comp soccer cup! >>>> >> >>>> >> Bruno >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>> . >>>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Alberto. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
