You know that it is not By the way, I´m glad that you recovered from the punch and adopted the standard superiority mode of atheistic conversation that I find sooo lovely
2013/12/1 Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> > > > > 2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> > >> If what I said were absurd you would have not responded so quickly and so >> seriously. >> Sorry if I offended your faith. That was an experiment. >> >> > Oh easy to do that, the first to say is... childish. > > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/1 Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> >>> >>> As I said to Telmo talking about sacrifices somewhere above, individual >>>> sacrifices are the only way to create trust among non cloning entities. >>>> And what higher sacrifice than to negate'what is screaming in his mind, in >>>> the universe and in everithing? That is the main sacrifice of the >>>> atheists. >>>> >>> >>> Nothing is screaming in my mind, in the universe and everything... I >>> sacrifice nothing. >>> >>> Quentin >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2013/12/1 Samiya Illias <[email protected]> >>>> >>>>> We exist, then why should we reject the idea of having been created, >>>>> just because we are unable to comprehend or define our Creator? Is that >>>>> not >>>>> intellectual dishonesty? >>>>> >>>>> Samiya >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 01-Dec-2013, at 3:33 AM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > On 11/30/2013 10:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>>> >> Brent, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I hope you don't mind I re-answer this. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or >>>>> Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, >>>>> Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares, Artemis, >>>>> Asclepius, Athena, Athirat, Athtart, Atlas, Baal, Ba Xian, Bacchus, >>>>> Balder, >>>>> Bast, Bellona, Bergelmir, Bes, Bixia Yuanjin, Bragi, Brahma, Brent, >>>>> Brigit, >>>>> Camaxtli, Ceres, Ceridwen, Cernunnos, Chac, Chalchiuhtlicue, Charun, >>>>> Chemosh, Cheng-huang, Clapton, Cybele, Dagon, Damkina (Dumkina), Davlin, >>>>> Dawn, Demeter, Diana, Di Cang, Dionysus, Ea, El, Enki, Enlil, Eos, Epona, >>>>> Ereskigal, Farbauti, Fenrir, Forseti, Fortuna, Freya, Freyr, Frigg, Gaia, >>>>> Ganesha, Ganga, Garuda, Gauri, Geb, Geong Si, Guanyin, Hades, Hanuman, >>>>> Hathor, Hecate (Hekate), Helios, Heng-o (Chang-o), Hephaestus, Hera, >>>>> Hermes, Hestia, Hod, Hoderi, Hoori, Horus, Hotei, Huitzilopochtli, >>>>> Hsi-Wang-Mu, Hygeia, Inanna, Inti, Iris, Ishtar, Isis, Ixtab, Izanaki, >>>>> Izanami, Jesus, Juno, Jehovah, Jupiter, Juturna, Kagutsuchi, Kartikeya, >>>>> Khepri, Ki, Kingu, Kinich Ahau, Kishar, Krishna, Kuan-yin, Kukulcan, >>>>> Kvasir, Lakshmi, Leto, Liza, Loki, Lugh, Luna, Magna Mater, Maia, Marduk, >>>>> Mars, Mazu, Medb, Mercury, Mimir, Min, Minerva, Mithras, Morrigan, Mot, >>>>> Mummu, Muses, Nammu, Nanna, Nanna (Norse), Nanse, Neith, Nemesis, >>>>> Nephthys, >>>>> Neptune, Nergal, Ninazu, Ninhurzag, Nintu, Ninurta, Njord, Nugua, Nut, >>>>> Odin, Ohkuninushi, Ohyamatsumi, Orgelmir, Osiris, Ostara, Pan, Parvati, >>>>> Phaethon, Phoebe, Phoebus Apollo, Pilumnus, Poseidon, Quetzalcoatl, Rama, >>>>> Re, RheaSabazius, Sarasvati, Selene, Shiva, Seshat, Seti (Set), Shamash, >>>>> Shapsu, Shen Yi, Shiva, Shu, Si-Wang-Mu, Sin, Sirona, Sol, Surya, Susanoh, >>>>> Tawaret, Tefnut, Tezcatlipoca, Thanatos, Thor, Thoth, Tiamat, Tianhou, >>>>> Tlaloc, Tonatiuh, Toyo-Uke-Bime, Tyche, Tyr, Utu, Uzume, Vediovis, Venus, >>>>> Vesta, Vishnu, Volturnus, Vulcan, Xipe, Xi Wang-mu, Xochipilli, >>>>> Xochiquetzal, Yam, Yarikh, YHWH, Ymir, Yu-huang, Yum Kimil and Zeus. But I >>>>> see no reason to believe any of them exist. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> So the question is: do you see a reason to disbelieve all of them? >>>>> > >>>>> > I didn't say I "disbelieved", I said I saw no reason to believe in >>>>> them. I *fail* to believe in them. I think of "belief" as admitting >>>>> degrees. I disbelieve in them FAPP, i.e. if I have to act I will act as >>>>> if >>>>> they didn't exist. But I cited the list to contradict your idea that >>>>> conceiving of gods makes it harder to disbelieve in God. I think it is the >>>>> other way around; it's harder to disbelieve in something undefined. Which >>>>> makes me wonder how you can be so dogmatic that fundamental matter does >>>>> not >>>>> exist? >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> What if the list just missed the one that exists? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> As far as I know, honestly, it seems to me that only Ganesh, or >>>>> Ganesha, is incompatible with comp. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I really love Ganesh, though, perhaps for that very reason. When >>>>> kid, Ganesh made his father angry and the angry father cut Ganesh's head, >>>>> and threw it away. Her mother was *very* angry, and ordered the father do >>>>> find a new head quickly, and the father, in the hurry, cut the head of of >>>>> the first elephant passing by, and that is why Ganesh has an elephant head >>>>> (which reminds me of the cuttlefish which I love even more). >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I guess you see the problem with comp. It is a version of the >>>>> brain-exchanged thought experience. But is it really contradictory with >>>>> comp? That's needs the thought experiences with (degrees of) amnesia, and >>>>> addressing the question who are we and how many person really exist. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> But how could I argue about Ohyamatsumi or RheaSabazius, Tlaloc? I >>>>> would need to study their stories to conclude. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Also, it looks that list misses the divinities that you can met by >>>>> smoking some herb, like the four kanobo Gods, and Daunarani, ... with >>>>> tobacco, or simply Maria, you know, the Mother of God, that you can meet >>>>> with Salvia (according to the Christian Mazatecs). >>>>> >> >>>>> >> There is no algorithm capable of deciding of two machines computes >>>>> or not the same function, so you can imagine the difficulties with the >>>>> nameable non machines, or gods and goddesses. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> And the big one, cannot be in such a list, I guess. >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> We might try to decide on a definition of "atheism", as that >>>>> notion is very unclear, and I have rarely obtain a definition on which >>>>> atheists agreed. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It's as clear as the negation of 'theist'. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> But "theist" is not clear. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> My point exactly. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> But if you agree that "theist" is not clear, you agree that >>>>> "atheist" is not clear either. >>>>> > >>>>> > But "theist" is only unclear because you suppose that you can cite >>>>> some ancient philosopher as *really* defining "theism". I accept the >>>>> modern theory of dictionaries that meanings are defined by usage; and the >>>>> usage of "God" is a superperson who created the world, wants to be >>>>> worshipped, and judges, rewards and punishes. >>>>> > >>>>> >> It creates an opposition where I see beliefs everywhere, and good >>>>> willing people trying to understand each others, mixed with people who >>>>> insult instead. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I have many sympathy for many atheists, and I share with them >>>>> important ideas, like no artificial magic, occam razor, rationalism, and >>>>> the anticleralism, and the "anti-autoritarism" (of the first one), but >>>>> they >>>>> get trapped in* believing* they have solved the theological question, or >>>>> trapped in the deny that there was even a question, leading to a form of >>>>> "don't ask", which slow down the possible progresses, and becomes an >>>>> autoritarist meme by itself. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> Some identify "God" with the God of their own culture. In >>>>> science, we try to get a concept as independent of human and culture as >>>>> possible. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I use "God" in the greek sense of Truth (the one that we can >>>>> search about us, or hope or fear, in life and afterlife, whatever it is). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Except nobody here is speaking Greek. And the Greeks had plenty >>>>> of gods that had nothing to do with truth; in fact they were given to >>>>> deception. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> I was of course alluding to the greek (neo)platonists. They did >>>>> invented the God used by both the abramanic cultures (even if terribly >>>>> deformed, notably by the abandon of science about it, and the use of >>>>> authoritative arguments, by Christians, Muslims, and perhaps by the Jewish >>>>> (with Maimonides, to some extent). >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Christianity, specifically Aquinas and Augustine, tried to merge >>>>> Greek philosophy into the Jewish Messianic religion of Christianity. But >>>>> the abrahamic religions owe far more to the Babylonian, Egyptian, and >>>>> Zoroastrian religions than to Greek. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> OK. But let us not confuse the terrestrial implementation of the >>>>> religious process and the true relations that machines can have with >>>>> truth. >>>>> > >>>>> > But you are exactly the person confusing them in your writing (if >>>>> not your thoughts) by using language of religions to express simple >>>>> mathematical ideas. >>>>> > >>>>> > Brent >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> As I said, thanks to Babbage, Turing, Post, Church, discoveries of >>>>> the universal numbers, we get an interesting "simple" Number Theology, >>>>> which can be used as an etalon in comparative theology. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> In the first match Plato 1 and Aristotle 0. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> It is not the last match in the comp soccer cup! >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Bruno >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>> > To post to this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Alberto. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >>> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy > Batty/Rutger Hauer) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
