2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> > You know that it is not > > By the way, I´m glad that you recovered from the punch and adopted the > standard superiority mode of atheistic conversation that I find sooo lovely >
Well, you use the standard rethoric... you don't discuss, so... That's you who said atheist must be deaf because they don't hear what's screaming in their mind, if it's not a "superiority mode", don't know what is... anyway, I'll stop here, it's useless. Quentin > > > 2013/12/1 Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> >> >>> If what I said were absurd you would have not responded so quickly and >>> so seriously. >>> Sorry if I offended your faith. That was an experiment. >>> >>> >> Oh easy to do that, the first to say is... childish. >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/1 Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> As I said to Telmo talking about sacrifices somewhere above, individual >>>>> sacrifices are the only way to create trust among non cloning entities. >>>>> And what higher sacrifice than to negate'what is screaming in his mind, >>>>> in >>>>> the universe and in everithing? That is the main sacrifice of the >>>>> atheists. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Nothing is screaming in my mind, in the universe and everything... I >>>> sacrifice nothing. >>>> >>>> Quentin >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013/12/1 Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>>> We exist, then why should we reject the idea of having been created, >>>>>> just because we are unable to comprehend or define our Creator? Is that >>>>>> not >>>>>> intellectual dishonesty? >>>>>> >>>>>> Samiya >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On 01-Dec-2013, at 3:33 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > On 11/30/2013 10:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>>>> >> Brent, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I hope you don't mind I re-answer this. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or >>>>>> Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, >>>>>> Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares, Artemis, >>>>>> Asclepius, Athena, Athirat, Athtart, Atlas, Baal, Ba Xian, Bacchus, >>>>>> Balder, >>>>>> Bast, Bellona, Bergelmir, Bes, Bixia Yuanjin, Bragi, Brahma, Brent, >>>>>> Brigit, >>>>>> Camaxtli, Ceres, Ceridwen, Cernunnos, Chac, Chalchiuhtlicue, Charun, >>>>>> Chemosh, Cheng-huang, Clapton, Cybele, Dagon, Damkina (Dumkina), Davlin, >>>>>> Dawn, Demeter, Diana, Di Cang, Dionysus, Ea, El, Enki, Enlil, Eos, Epona, >>>>>> Ereskigal, Farbauti, Fenrir, Forseti, Fortuna, Freya, Freyr, Frigg, Gaia, >>>>>> Ganesha, Ganga, Garuda, Gauri, Geb, Geong Si, Guanyin, Hades, Hanuman, >>>>>> Hathor, Hecate (Hekate), Helios, Heng-o (Chang-o), Hephaestus, Hera, >>>>>> Hermes, Hestia, Hod, Hoderi, Hoori, Horus, Hotei, Huitzilopochtli, >>>>>> Hsi-Wang-Mu, Hygeia, Inanna, Inti, Iris, Ishtar, Isis, Ixtab, Izanaki, >>>>>> Izanami, Jesus, Juno, Jehovah, Jupiter, Juturna, Kagutsuchi, Kartikeya, >>>>>> Khepri, Ki, Kingu, Kinich Ahau, Kishar, Krishna, Kuan-yin, Kukulcan, >>>>>> Kvasir, Lakshmi, Leto, Liza, Loki, Lugh, Luna, Magna Mater, Maia, Marduk, >>>>>> Mars, Mazu, Medb, Mercury, Mimir, Min, Minerva, Mithras, Morrigan, Mot, >>>>>> Mummu, Muses, Nammu, Nanna, Nanna (Norse), Nanse, Neith, Nemesis, >>>>>> Nephthys, >>>>>> Neptune, Nergal, Ninazu, Ninhurzag, Nintu, Ninurta, Njord, Nugua, Nut, >>>>>> Odin, Ohkuninushi, Ohyamatsumi, Orgelmir, Osiris, Ostara, Pan, Parvati, >>>>>> Phaethon, Phoebe, Phoebus Apollo, Pilumnus, Poseidon, Quetzalcoatl, Rama, >>>>>> Re, RheaSabazius, Sarasvati, Selene, Shiva, Seshat, Seti (Set), Shamash, >>>>>> Shapsu, Shen Yi, Shiva, Shu, Si-Wang-Mu, Sin, Sirona, Sol, Surya, >>>>>> Susanoh, >>>>>> Tawaret, Tefnut, Tezcatlipoca, Thanatos, Thor, Thoth, Tiamat, Tianhou, >>>>>> Tlaloc, Tonatiuh, Toyo-Uke-Bime, Tyche, Tyr, Utu, Uzume, Vediovis, Venus, >>>>>> Vesta, Vishnu, Volturnus, Vulcan, Xipe, Xi Wang-mu, Xochipilli, >>>>>> Xochiquetzal, Yam, Yarikh, YHWH, Ymir, Yu-huang, Yum Kimil and Zeus. But >>>>>> I >>>>>> see no reason to believe any of them exist. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> So the question is: do you see a reason to disbelieve all of them? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I didn't say I "disbelieved", I said I saw no reason to believe in >>>>>> them. I *fail* to believe in them. I think of "belief" as admitting >>>>>> degrees. I disbelieve in them FAPP, i.e. if I have to act I will act as >>>>>> if >>>>>> they didn't exist. But I cited the list to contradict your idea that >>>>>> conceiving of gods makes it harder to disbelieve in God. I think it is >>>>>> the >>>>>> other way around; it's harder to disbelieve in something undefined. >>>>>> Which >>>>>> makes me wonder how you can be so dogmatic that fundamental matter does >>>>>> not >>>>>> exist? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> What if the list just missed the one that exists? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> As far as I know, honestly, it seems to me that only Ganesh, or >>>>>> Ganesha, is incompatible with comp. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I really love Ganesh, though, perhaps for that very reason. When >>>>>> kid, Ganesh made his father angry and the angry father cut Ganesh's head, >>>>>> and threw it away. Her mother was *very* angry, and ordered the father do >>>>>> find a new head quickly, and the father, in the hurry, cut the head of of >>>>>> the first elephant passing by, and that is why Ganesh has an elephant >>>>>> head >>>>>> (which reminds me of the cuttlefish which I love even more). >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I guess you see the problem with comp. It is a version of the >>>>>> brain-exchanged thought experience. But is it really contradictory with >>>>>> comp? That's needs the thought experiences with (degrees of) amnesia, and >>>>>> addressing the question who are we and how many person really exist. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> But how could I argue about Ohyamatsumi or RheaSabazius, Tlaloc? I >>>>>> would need to study their stories to conclude. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Also, it looks that list misses the divinities that you can met by >>>>>> smoking some herb, like the four kanobo Gods, and Daunarani, ... with >>>>>> tobacco, or simply Maria, you know, the Mother of God, that you can meet >>>>>> with Salvia (according to the Christian Mazatecs). >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> There is no algorithm capable of deciding of two machines computes >>>>>> or not the same function, so you can imagine the difficulties with the >>>>>> nameable non machines, or gods and goddesses. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> And the big one, cannot be in such a list, I guess. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We might try to decide on a definition of "atheism", as that >>>>>> notion is very unclear, and I have rarely obtain a definition on which >>>>>> atheists agreed. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> It's as clear as the negation of 'theist'. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> But "theist" is not clear. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> My point exactly. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> But if you agree that "theist" is not clear, you agree that >>>>>> "atheist" is not clear either. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > But "theist" is only unclear because you suppose that you can cite >>>>>> some ancient philosopher as *really* defining "theism". I accept the >>>>>> modern theory of dictionaries that meanings are defined by usage; and the >>>>>> usage of "God" is a superperson who created the world, wants to be >>>>>> worshipped, and judges, rewards and punishes. >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> It creates an opposition where I see beliefs everywhere, and good >>>>>> willing people trying to understand each others, mixed with people who >>>>>> insult instead. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I have many sympathy for many atheists, and I share with them >>>>>> important ideas, like no artificial magic, occam razor, rationalism, and >>>>>> the anticleralism, and the "anti-autoritarism" (of the first one), but >>>>>> they >>>>>> get trapped in* believing* they have solved the theological question, or >>>>>> trapped in the deny that there was even a question, leading to a form of >>>>>> "don't ask", which slow down the possible progresses, and becomes an >>>>>> autoritarist meme by itself. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> Some identify "God" with the God of their own culture. In >>>>>> science, we try to get a concept as independent of human and culture as >>>>>> possible. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I use "God" in the greek sense of Truth (the one that we can >>>>>> search about us, or hope or fear, in life and afterlife, whatever it is). >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Except nobody here is speaking Greek. And the Greeks had >>>>>> plenty of gods that had nothing to do with truth; in fact they were given >>>>>> to deception. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> I was of course alluding to the greek (neo)platonists. They did >>>>>> invented the God used by both the abramanic cultures (even if terribly >>>>>> deformed, notably by the abandon of science about it, and the use of >>>>>> authoritative arguments, by Christians, Muslims, and perhaps by the >>>>>> Jewish >>>>>> (with Maimonides, to some extent). >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Christianity, specifically Aquinas and Augustine, tried to merge >>>>>> Greek philosophy into the Jewish Messianic religion of Christianity. But >>>>>> the abrahamic religions owe far more to the Babylonian, Egyptian, and >>>>>> Zoroastrian religions than to Greek. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> OK. But let us not confuse the terrestrial implementation of the >>>>>> religious process and the true relations that machines can have with >>>>>> truth. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > But you are exactly the person confusing them in your writing (if >>>>>> not your thoughts) by using language of religions to express simple >>>>>> mathematical ideas. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Brent >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> As I said, thanks to Babbage, Turing, Post, Church, discoveries of >>>>>> the universal numbers, we get an interesting "simple" Number Theology, >>>>>> which can be used as an etalon in comparative theology. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> In the first match Plato 1 and Aristotle 0. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> It is not the last match in the comp soccer cup! >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Bruno >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> > To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com >>>>>> . >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Alberto. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >>>> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Alberto. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. 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