Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

```The heat is measured in terms of energy. and this energy is proportional to
the agitation of the particles. But a single particle moves. It is not
"hot". itÂ´s energy is 1/2 m v2: Its cinetic energy.  when you have zillions
of particles of a gas or a liquiid or a solid in a recipient, it has heat
proportional to the mean cinetic energy of these particles by a constant
discovered by Boltzman. He used ordinary statistics to derive it. That was
the foundation of statistical mechanics. Entropy is also a macroscopical
magnitude, like heat. there is a statistical way to calculate entrophy by
calculating in which way we can arrange N particules in different speeds
and positions compatible with each observable macroscopical state. that is
called the partition function.```
```
Leonard Susskind has lectures on statistical mechanics and explain all of
this.

2013/12/4 <spudboy...@aol.com>

> Yes not to speak so ignorantly, but what particle caries heat, in the same
> sense that photons carry e-m, the boson, radioactivity, the proton,
> essentially the strong force, and the graviton-gravity aka mass. Is there a
> Heat on, the wiggle of the neutron, using lots of photons to carry heat?
>   -----Original Message-----
> From: Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:38 am
> Subject: Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether
> information is physical.
>
>  Yes there is no loss of information* at the lowest level,* that is at
> the quantum level . But at the lowest level, there is NO notion of HEAT.
> only speeds and momentums of elementary particles.  HEAT and temperature
> and entropy are statistical parameters, words used in the macroscopical
> laws to define sum of energies and mean energies or disorder of particles
> because the energy of each particle is not know at the human scale but each
> particle carry all the information intact.
>
>
>  THe post is talking about the loss of information contained in a
> macrostate consisting of a phisical bit of information stored in a
> macroscopical object.  For example a gate. The conservation of information
> on the laws of physics refers to the information of the microstates.  not
> macrostates, whose information can be lost. and loss of information in a
> macrostate generate increase of entropy by the following reason:
>
>  in terms of state, an increase of entropy is produced when we pass from
> a macrostate with less possible microstates to other with more possible
> microstates.  At the beginning we have one macrostate , for example 1
> formed by all the possible configurations of electrons in a gate when it
> stores a 1.   when erased, we have a macrostate that may be one of the
> possible configurations of electrons that may be in a gate with a 1 OR a 0
>  or a neutral state. So the entropy has increased because the new
> macrostate (erased) has more microstates than the original. the disorder
> has increased. How that entropy increase is produced in the erase depend on
> the process. It may be by means of a short circuit in the gate. The
> electrons circulate and hit the atoms producing  heat. the potential
> electric energy of attraction produces cynetic energy in the atoms and heat.
>
>  The microstate-macrostate transition is the same case that happens when
> we have a gas of different types confined in a room and other room empty.
> When we communicate the rooms, the gas expand and fill both rooms, the
> entropy increased because the final macrostate admits more possible
> configurations speeds and positions of particles in the  two rooms .
> Something similar, not equal, happens with gas of electrons in a gate.
>  Measured in termodinamical terms, the temperature decreased and the
> entropy measured in termodinamical terms  delta Q/T has increased. Q is the
>  thermal energy or heat.
>
>  However the process is different. in the first case, potential energy is
> dissipated and there is increase of Q, in the other the potential energy is
> dissipated against the vacuum and produces reduction of T. Q/T seems to be
> proportional to the number of microstates in a macrostate.
>
>  The availability of information in the form of macrostates when entropy
> is low is what permits living beings to compute in order to anticipate the
> future and survive. That can only happen in the direction of entropy
> increase.  I wrote something all of this here:
>
>
> http://www.slideshare.net/agcorona1/arrow-of-time-determined-by-lthe-easier-direction-of-computation-for-life
>  I
>
>
> 2013/12/4 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
>
>>  On 12/3/2013 6:17 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote:
>>
>>  Hey everyone,
>>
>> Here is a question for Bruno (and anyone else who wants to chime in) --
>>
>> I came across this
>> post<http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/11/28/thanksgiving-8/>over
>>  at Sean Carroll's Preposterous Universe blog, wherein he seems to be
>> claiming that the
>> relationship between information, entropy, and physical processes is
>> pretty well in the bag, i.e. it is well understood by physicists
>> and it seems that the concept of information can be cashed out entirely
>> in terms of physical processes.
>>
>>
>>  But if the processes are reversible (and they can be) then there is no
>> entropy increase and no heat.  Feynman already outlined how this would have
>> to be done in quantum computers.
>>
>> I think the problems are far from solved.  Black holes, in the
>> semi-classical approximation seem to destroy information and there are
>> various proposals for preserving the unitary evolution of quantum
>> mechanics, but none that are completely satisfactory.
>>
>> Brent
>>
>>
>>
>> What does this do to your thought experiment and your Platonic
>> orientation towards questions of information theory?
>>
>> How would you go about explaining the deep relationship between entropy,
>> information, and the physical evolution of the universe?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dan
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>
>
>
>  --
> Alberto.
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--
Alberto.

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