On 5 December 2013 21:53, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I´m very interested in what you question. One of the wonders of life is
> how a living being select relevant information from the environment for
> their needs. I think that the aestetic sense is a heavy part of the
> activity of the mind at the unconscious level. Form recognition is
> computation intensive. It is also very puzzling for me how accurately
> people recognize intuitively  order or disorder in agreement with what
> would be the real entropy calculated in physical terms.
>  It seems that the  filtering of information that is not relevant and to
> deal with what is relevant has been one of the main evolutionary pressures.
> A recognized pattern (for example, a porcelain jar with all its details,
> can be assimilated to a macrostate in entropic terms. A broken porcelain
> jar reduced to dust makes it undistinguisable from other jars and also
> unusable for doing a work. For example to transport water. That is why life
> needs to use low entropic things that can be recognized as interesting
> patterns.

The vase is only distinct from the dust when viewed above a certain level
of "coarse graining" - so how does one assign it entropy? It seems like
entropy exists at our level, but not at the bottom level of atoms and so
on. Yet a black hole can be assigned an entropy, and you can't get much
more fundamental than that. It seems to me that there is something missing
between the thermodynamic "coarse-grained" idea of entropy and the
(presumable fundamental level) black hole entropy. How is that possible,
that the same thing exists in two different ways on two different levels,
one of which appears to be emergent? (Am I missing something important

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