On 10 Dec 2013, at 20:40, John Clark wrote:

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

> This is exactly what UDA shows that comp *leads* to a reduction of the mind body problem into a body problem in arithmetic.

I don't know what "comp"

False. You know what it means.



is or what relevance the Universal Dance Association has to all this but never mind, what problem in arithmetic explains life the universe and everything? Is it how much is 6*7 ?

No, it is the comparison between the arithmetical quantization and the empiric one, which can help to confirms comp (+ classical theory of knowledge) or refute it.




> We don't need to try to define consciousness,

I agree, examples are far more important than definitions.

> but to agree that consciousness is invariant for some transformation of the brains,

Yes.

> and this eventually reduce physics to a measure problem

Yes, if a measurement of a brain is made and information on the position and velocity of atoms is obtained another brain can be made with generic atoms that will produce a identical consciousness.

Which by the way, illustrates that the conscious experience will not be able to localize its universal level implementing them, nor even decide if it is in arithmetic or in another "physical" system.




> You didn't convince any one you refuted the reasoning, given that each time you provided a counter-example it was shown to confuse the first and third person views

For several years now Bruno Marchal has accused John Clark of that, but John Clark would maintain that there is not a single person on the face of the earth who is confused by the difference between the first person and the third person.

Then provide the prediction algorithm, and if *you* don't confuse 1p and 3p, you can see that P = 1/2 is the best prediction available. Show one better if you can.





> You say that the use of the pronouns is defectuous, but I am the one insisting to keep clearly the distinction between pronouns referring to the first person and the third person view (as defined with the notion of personal diary).

How the hell does a diary help in making a clear distinction? There are 7 billion first person views on this planet and everybody writes about "I" in their diary.

The question is addressed to the Helsinki man, and you are right, both copies will write "I" in the diary. That is the point, and that is the reason of why both copies will acknowledge their inability to predict their next 1p experience in self-duplication experiment.




> You are in Helsinki, and by comp you know that you will survive one and entire in a unique city, and you know you can't know which one precisely. It will be one, and if you write W, the first person experience of the one in M will refute it.

That's 6 uses of the personal pronoun "you" in just 50 words, 12%. And the entire purpose of the sentence was to cast light on the nature of "you",


It was not.

Your rhetorical handwaving convinces only you, John. Try to convince someone else. If someone ever understood John C. point, please explain this to us.


Bruno


but I do admit that a proposition is far easier to prove if the very proposition can be used as a lemma in the proof itself.

  John K Clark






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