On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Stephen Paul King <
stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:

> Yes, but why are you being anthropocentric?
>

I thought that was your position, or at least (observer-centric), in that
numbers only have properties when observed/checked/computed by some entity
somewhere.


> If there can exist a physical process that is a bisimulation of the
> computation of the test for primeness, then the primeness is true.
> Otherwise, we are merely guessing, at best.
>

When we check the primaility of some number N, we may not know whether or
not it is prime.  However, eventually we run the computation and find out
either it was, or it wasn't.

My question to you is when was it determined that N was or was not prime?
Any time we re-check the calculation we get the same result. Presumably
even causally isolated observers will also get the same result. If humans
get wiped out and cuttlefish take over the world and build computers, and
they check to see if N, is prime is it possible for them to get a different
result?

My contention is that it is not possible to get a different result, that N
was always prime, or it was always not prime, and it would be prime (or not
prime) even if we lacked the means or inclination to check it.

Jason


>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> So you are arguing that doing the computations is what makes a number
>> prime or not?
>>
>> When does the number first become prime, is it when the first person
>> anywhere in the universe checks it? What about people beyond the
>> cosmological horizon that compute it, or what about people in hypothetical
>> other universes?  Does the first person ever to check and verify that a
>> number is prime, make it prime for all people, in all universes, forever?
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Stephen Paul King <
>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I do not assume that computations can occur if there are no physical
>>> means to implement them. My imagination that s 270 digit string is prime is
>>> not equivalent to actually doing the computation that tests for primeness.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:47 AM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Stephen Paul King <
>>>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, your making the mistake of identifying a representation of a thing
>>>>> with the thing. The symbol 10^80 does not have 10^80 components, so to act
>>>>> as it is does...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Tell me this, is the following (270 digit) number prime:
>>>>
>>>> 332694894848329434549105787414873502606112802712440024745636803095039036420080826797726325643727533347094562684200739500429461145303257192536463211027218435305302565244506232330240506160052373297550819467601665370364223791626506805746132690937677414
>>>> 846877090853919880937
>>>>
>>>> Either it is or it isn't. If it is, then this is no different from the
>>>> case of 17 being prime (even if the universe had only 16 objects).
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Kindest Regards,
>>>
>>> Stephen Paul King
>>>
>>> Senior Researcher
>>>
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>>>
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>
>
>
> --
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> Kindest Regards,
>
> Stephen Paul King
>
> Senior Researcher
>
> Mobile: (864) 567-3099
>
> stephe...@provensecure.com
>
>  http://www.provensecure.us/
>
>
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