On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Stephen Paul King <
stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:

> Dear Jason,
>   I think it was you that wrote (to me):
> "I was not defending that view, but pointing out how ridiculous it would
> be to suppose mathematical truth does not exist before it is found by
> someone somewhere."

Yes, I wrote that.

>    I am trying to get some thought going. Why is it so ridiculous,
> exactly?

It seems to get cause and effect completely backwards. 7 isn't prime
because I wrote some demonstration on paper that it has no factors besides
1 and 7, rather, I wrote some demonstration on paper that it has no factors
besides 1 and 7 because the truth of the matter is that 1 and 7 are its
only factors.

> If there exists a mathematical theorem that requires a countable infinity
> of integers to represent, no finite version can exist of it, in other
> words, can its proof be found?

If its shortest proof is infinitely long, or if the required axioms needed
to develop a finite proof are infinite, (or instead of infinite, so large
we could not represent them in this universe), then its proof can't be
found (by us), but there is a definite answer to the question.  Let's say
it is the question of whether or not some program will ever terminate.
Certainly, all programs either terminate or they don't.  There is some
truth value concerning whether it does or does not, despite that the answer
might be unknown to us.

> What is it that "makes it true"?

You could say "God".  Or that it just is, and always has been.  What makes
it possible for this universe to exist?

> If we remove the possibility of ever proving a theorem, what is that
> theorem's possible truth value?

Something not knowable by us, (as are a answers to a lot lot of questions).


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