Gabriel,

See my long most recent response to Jason for an analysis of how this works 
and why this contradiction doesn't falsify Present moment P-time.....

Best,
Edgar

On Friday, January 3, 2014 10:31:59 AM UTC-5, Gabriel Bodeen wrote:
>
> (I'm expanding on the comment by Jason.)
>
> The "P-time" notion, if it means anything at all timelike, says that there 
> exists some uniquely correct ordering of events across space.
>
> Consider these events: Pam's 3rd birthday party and Sam's 4th birthday 
> party
>
> The "P-time" notion says that either (A) P3bp happens before S4bp, (B) 
> P3bp happens after S4bp, or (C) P3bp happens at the same time as S4bp.  The 
> "P-time" notion, having not developed in a scientific manner, can't offer 
> any help in discovering which of A, B, or C is the case; it merely says it 
> is the case that, in principle, exactly one of A, B, or C is true.
>
> By contrast, the past century of physics concludes that A is true in some 
> reference frames, B is true in other reference frames, and C is true in 
> other other reference frames.  It is NOT the case that, in principle, 
> exactly one of A, B, or C is true.
>
> So there's a direct contradiction.  And "P-time" falls on the wrong side 
> of the contradiction according to a whole century's worth of experimental 
> work in physics.
>
> Furthermore, there is (scientific) theoretical work (c.f. 
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121002145454.htm ) that 
> indicates that, by exploiting quantum behavior, we should be able to build 
> a superposition of one causal order and the reverse causal order between 
> two events in the same location.  If that pans out empirically, then the 
> "P-time" notion won't even have the appearance of being a local 
> approximation to the truth.
>
> -Gabe
>
> On Thursday, January 2, 2014 5:19:52 PM UTC-6, Jason wrote:
>>
>> Edgar,
>>
>> I realized there is another problem.  It is not just that we don't what 
>> Sam is doing, but it seems the present moment P-time does not proceed in an 
>> orderly or logical manner.
>>
>> From Pam's point of view the event of her reaching Proxima Centauri 
>> happens *before *Sam's 4th birthday. But from Sam's point of view, Pam 
>> reaching Proxima Centauri happens *after *his 4th birthday!
>>
>> If there is a single, orderly proceeding, present moment, then I see no 
>> what whatever to reconcile the incompatibility of these views...
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>

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