Hi Edgar, On 05 Jan 2014, at 13:41, Edgar L. Owen wrote:

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Bruno,You say of the present moment "Yes, it's not a clock time." I agree,then what is the present moment if it isn't a clock time?

`It is the set of computational states on which a first person is`

`associated as a sort of "hero" in some histories, corresponding to the`

`most probable relative computations or universal neighbors.`

`It is an indexical: each states supporting that "hero story" is`

`handled "indexically", by itself, through self-reference and encodings`

`of that local "past(s)" and "future(s)" possible with respect to`

`approximate representations of the universal neighbors.`

`'Present, 'me, 'here, 'now, 'actual, like 'yesterday and`

`'tomorrow, ... are indexicals, and can be handled relative to`

`universal numbers ("programming languages", "interpreters") with a`

`simple diagonal method (If Dx produce 'xx', DD produces 'DD').`

`The first person knowledge can be defined by the true believing,`

`making it undefinable by itself, and linking it to a temporal logic of`

`knowledge states.`

`God created the Natural Numbers, all the rest belong to the Numbers`

`Dreams, emulated by the additive and multiplicative number structure.`

`Some dreams cohere in shared "video games", if you want, which can`

`have very long and deep histories. Some dream are true, or have true`

`component relatively to the more probable universal neighbors.`

`Machines and numbers, from their points of view, are confronted to the`

`non computable.`

`Machine's or Numbers' dream are lawful, and consciousness, or the`

`belief in a reality, is eventually guided or differentiated by truth`

`and relative consistencies. (And thanks to computer science those`

`terms needs only the Tarski notion of truth for the arithmetical`

`propositions, which assumes not much).`

`I think this is in the spirit of the cautious relativists like`

`Galilee, Einstein, Everett, or Boscovitch, and Rössler, all the`

`genuine monist, I would say.`

`This does not solve all problems, but has been used to transform the`

`mind-body problem into a "belief in bodies" problem in pure`

`arithmetic, and we have already the tools to interview, in some`

`literal sense, Löbian machine (universal numbers who know that they`

`are universal, in some weak sense) on that very question. That's`

`enough to derive a proposition 'theology, including the propositional`

`'physics (which appears quantum like).`

`After Gödel 1931, we understand that the Arithmetical Reality is far`

`richer and intricate than we thought before. We can understand that`

`all numbers can understand that too, and even test it, making comp (+`

`classical definitions of knowledge, belief) falsifiable.`

`It remains to extract the linearity and tensor structure we can`

`suspect at the core physical bottom.`

`But you need some math to grasp the real thing here. I can explain`

`more if interested. You can find the paper and thesis in my url, also.`

`Or you can read this list, if it was not an infinite task ...`

`The present moment is only a "true" moment (its relative existence is`

`satisfied by arithmetic) with the ability to refer to itself, more or`

`less correctly.`

(Its logic is captured by some formula due to Grzegorczyk). Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.