Brent,

No, the present moment is NOT just a "label". It's an empirically 
verifiable observation (measurement). And not only that both twins agree on 
that measurement, namely that they have different clock times in the same 
shared present moment.

There is simply no way around that....

Edgar



On Sunday, January 5, 2014 2:08:47 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>
>  On 1/5/2014 4:33 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
>  
> Brent, 
>
>  No, that's the exact opposite of what I said. I said they ARE at the 
> same "present place" when their clocks don't agree.
>  
>
> Yes.  So why don't you recognize that "present place" is just a label, 
> exactly like a latitude and longitude - and then that "present time" is a 
> label, a coordinate time - which the diagrams I posted made perfectly 
> clear.  The problem is that you seem to think "here and now" implies a 
> "there and now"; but "there and now" is ambiguous and is RELATIVE to the 
> state of motion.
>
>  
>  Now a question for you. What is this "present place" they are in?
>  
>
> It's the location defined by their meeting, it's just a label with an 
> ostensive definition, aka "here".
>
> Brent
>
>
>  
>  Edgar
>
>  
>  
>
> On Saturday, January 4, 2014 10:01:02 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: 
>>
>>  On 1/4/2014 5:44 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
>>  
>>
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2014, at 5:36 PM, "Edgar L. Owen" <edga...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>   Jason, 
>>
>>  PS: And don't tell me the twins meeting with different clock times in 
>> the same present moment is "an event" as if that explained something.
>>
>>   
>>  I use that word in the usual relatavistic (and traditional) sense. As 
>> something with defined spatial and temporal coordinates. A known time and 
>> place, where and when.
>>
>>  Jason  
>>
>>   Of course it's an event. Everything that happens in the entire 
>> universe is an event. But what is the nature of that event from your 
>> perspective?
>>   
>>  
>> Jason, didn't answer that so I'll chip in. The nature of the event is 
>> that two people who followed different paths between two events in 
>> spacetime are at the second event.  They synchronized their odometers 
>> before they left the first event.  One took the freeway, which was straight 
>> to their meeting point.  The other took some interesting mountain roads and 
>> when he arrived at their meeting place his odometer indicated a bigger 
>> distance.  But Edgar said that's impossible, "How could they both be at the 
>> same present place when their odometers don't agree?"
>>
>> Brent
>>  
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