# Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

```Brent,

No, the present moment is NOT just a "label". It's an empirically
verifiable observation (measurement). And not only that both twins agree on
that measurement, namely that they have different clock times in the same
shared present moment.```
```
There is simply no way around that....

Edgar

On Sunday, January 5, 2014 2:08:47 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>
>  On 1/5/2014 4:33 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
>
> Brent,
>
>  No, that's the exact opposite of what I said. I said they ARE at the
> same "present place" when their clocks don't agree.
>
>
> Yes.  So why don't you recognize that "present place" is just a label,
> exactly like a latitude and longitude - and then that "present time" is a
> label, a coordinate time - which the diagrams I posted made perfectly
> clear.  The problem is that you seem to think "here and now" implies a
> "there and now"; but "there and now" is ambiguous and is RELATIVE to the
> state of motion.
>
>
>  Now a question for you. What is this "present place" they are in?
>
>
> It's the location defined by their meeting, it's just a label with an
> ostensive definition, aka "here".
>
> Brent
>
>
>
>  Edgar
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, January 4, 2014 10:01:02 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>>
>>  On 1/4/2014 5:44 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2014, at 5:36 PM, "Edgar L. Owen" <edga...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>   Jason,
>>
>>  PS: And don't tell me the twins meeting with different clock times in
>> the same present moment is "an event" as if that explained something.
>>
>>
>>  I use that word in the usual relatavistic (and traditional) sense. As
>> something with defined spatial and temporal coordinates. A known time and
>> place, where and when.
>>
>>  Jason
>>
>>   Of course it's an event. Everything that happens in the entire
>> universe is an event. But what is the nature of that event from your
>> perspective?
>>
>>
>> Jason, didn't answer that so I'll chip in. The nature of the event is
>> that two people who followed different paths between two events in
>> spacetime are at the second event.  They synchronized their odometers
>> before they left the first event.  One took the freeway, which was straight
>> to their meeting point.  The other took some interesting mountain roads and
>> when he arrived at their meeting place his odometer indicated a bigger
>> distance.  But Edgar said that's impossible, "How could they both be at the
>> same present place when their odometers don't agree?"
>>
>> Brent
>>
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