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On Jan 6, 2014, at 6:55 AM, "Edgar L. Owen" <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:

Brent,No it's not "an observation that the two twins are together atparticular spacetime coordinates" because the spacetime tcoordinates are different.

Their proper times are different, but not their coordinate times.

`A clock time is only a representation of how much speed (and`

`accordingly distance) had to be given up to travel through space. It`

`is not an actual coordinate in space time, for that you use coordinate`

`time. All things travel equal distances through space time in equal`

`coordinate times, but not all things travel equal distances through`

`proper time (clock time) in equal coordinate times. It is when the`

`coordinate times are equal that two things can interact.`

Since the spacetime t coordinates are different WHEN are theytogether?

Their coordinate times are equal.

Certainly not in a simultaneous clock time as proved by theirdiffering clocks.

Right, their proper times are different.

When are they together Brent? Obviously in a present moment which isa kind of time that clearly is not the same as clock time.

`They are together when their spatial coordinates: x,y,z and coordinate`

`time t are the same. You are right this t is not the same as proper`

`time.`

`Your conclusion that there must be a global present for this to work`

`is unneccessary.`

Jason

Edgar On Monday, January 6, 2014 12:18:16 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 1/5/2014 12:00 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > Brent, >> No, the present moment is NOT just a "label". It's an empiricallyverifiable observation> (measurement). And not only that both twins agree on thatmeasurement, namely that they> have different clock times in the same shared present moment. > > There is simply no way around that.... > > EdgarOf course it's an observation. It's an observation that the twotwins are together atparticular spacetime coordinates. I have no problem with youcalling that a presentmoment (although everyone else calls it an event). The problem isnot that you can'tdefine a global time at which they meet, it's that you can't definea *unique* globaltime. There are infinitely many choices of coordinate time and theywill all agree thatthe twins meet at the same coordinate time - but they will not agreeas to which otherdistant events in the universe are at the same time as the meeting. Brent --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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