On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> >> the external objective environment (the weather, a syringe full of > drugs, a punch to the face) can cause a big subjective change. > > > I have no doubt that this is true. The point is that IF you have a > complete 3p theory of the brain-body, you can't prove that the subjective > experience exist. > I don't need a proof because I have something better, I have direct experience of the subjective. I don't have direct experience of YOUR conscious experience because it is a logical contradiction, if I did have it you wouldn't be you, you'd be me. > And a subjective experience like a itch can cause a external objective >> effect, like moving the matter in your hand to scratch the matter in your >> nose. >> > > >Sure. But again, if someone does not believe in that subjective > experience, then a 3p causal description at some level will explain the > external objective effect without mentioning the subjective experience. I > agree with you of course, but that is what makes a part of the problem. > Problem? What's the problem? If I do not believe in your subjective experience, as you say above, then I certainly don't need to explain it. And if I do believe in your subjective experience then I can say it was caused by the way matter interacts (which can be fully described by information) just as I already know from direct experience that my subjective experience is caused. And if I also believe that consciousness is fundamental, that is to say a sequence of "What caused that?" questions is not infinite and consciousness comes at the end, then there is nothing more that can be said on the subject. >>>> I think consciousness is probably just the way information feels when >>>> it is being processed; >>>> >>> >>> >>>In which computations. You admit yourself that consciousness cannot >>> be localized in one brain, >>> >> >> >> Yes, because computations can't be localized either. >> > > > Excellent. Like the numbers. They don't belong to the type of object > having any physical attributes like position, velocity or mass. > And position not being relevant to consciousness is the reason your increasingly convoluted thought experiment about where the "real you" is located is worthless. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
