On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 15 Apr 2014, at 22:41, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 6:44 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 4/15/2014 4:38 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> An interesting related hypothesis is that language originated >>> from synesthesia caused by psychadelics. >>> >>> Telmo. >>> >>> >>> I had heard that Telmo. Do you have a reference, a link? >>> >> >> Unfortunately not. I think I heard in a talk. Might be related to >> McKenna's "stoned ape" theory, but I can't find anything... >> >> >> That seems very far-fetched considering that animals already exhibit >> rudimentary language and that its selective advantage for a tool making >> social animal is huge. >> > > I agree that the idea that language was bootstrapped by psychadelics is > far-fetched. I see it as a fun hypothesis more than anything else, for the > reasons you mention. > > > OK. But I doubt it. Synesthete people seems to have an abnormal wiring of > the brain connecting parts which are not connected in other people, and > they are usually handicaped by their ability. It is very stable, if they > see the number 4 yellow, when asked again 20 years later, it is the same > color. > True, but here it's perhaps important to make a distinction between permanent synesthesia and the temporary kind that can be caused by psychedelics. > > > > >> I don't see how synesthesia could do anything but confound and confuse >> the development of language. >> > > Maybe so for the development of direct symbols, but I can imagine it > playing a role in the emergence of more abstract ideas. Even in modern > times we can see this at work, to a degree. Many of the cultural ideas that > originated in the 60s, and that still reverberate today, were "unearthed" > by using LSD, cannabis, etc. > > I find the effects of psychoactive substances particularly interesting for > AI research, because they show a profound way in which our brains differ > from the current model of computation. Computer programs typically crash if > we mess with their computational substrate. We flood the brain with an > inhibitor for a certain type of receptor or with the analogue of some > transmitter and it doesn't collapse. It does all kinds of interesting > things, some good and some bad. Sometimes you get "the dark side of the > moon" -- if musical talent is already present, of course :) > > > I do think psychedelic, and other brain pertubation can help to solve > problem. Some technic in optimization and in AI are based on that. You can > enhance the finding of a minimum by shaking a surface with some ball on it. > The brain is highly redundant, with the information distributed and > slightly different, so by blocking some information path, new path can be > found, and sometimes with a difference (and sometime with some benefices). > The brain do drugs all the time, it is part of our functioning, and indeed > animals drugs themselves very often, and plants exploits this to manipulate > insects. > > It looks also that the brain might have some hardcoded solution to support > abnormal stress, like in grave illness and near death, and so some drugs > can perhaps trigger those "dormant" programs, and people can get idea of > what happens in such stress, or near death. That is consistent with > evolution, because your species can benefit from particular abilities to > survive in those high stress conditions, and it can help for surviving > trauma in aggressive animals (like human), so that it can benefits to some > population of genes. > Such change of brains in high stress have been evidenced in mammals like > mice and rats. Some animal brains secrete endo-tranquilizer when a prey is > captured by some predator. > Now there are millions of drugs, and they trigger different responses. > Benefits and harms necessitate case by case analysis. > > Bruno > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
