On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 5:10 PM, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> wrote:
> John, > Your explanation of communication of apparently 'non-living' bodies is > interesting. Lately, I've been contemplating on a verse ( > http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=22&verse=18) which speaks > of WHOEVER is in the heavens and WHOEVER is on the earth... and I was > wondering what it may mean. > Earlier, based upon another verse (6:38), I had looked up the internet for > animals living in communities, and had found quite a bit of research > pointing in that direction ( > http://signsandscience.blogspot.ca/2014/05/all-creatures-form-communities.html). > > You might recall that till a few months ago I had been suggesting that the > scientists on this list look at the Quran as well in their quest for a > theory of everything. Since then, I've started looking up research on the > net regarding what I read in the Quran in an effort to study and understand > it better myself first. Could you perhaps look at it and share your > thoughts about the science research I refer to in my blog posts, either > here or in the comments box beneath the blog posts? The link is > http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/ > Thanks, > Samiya > Sorry for being so late, I have a hard time to comprehend the (flowery??) language of the Quran-translations and they seem mostly to be outside of my domains. So here is a response within (my?) domain: I do not comply with researching "everything" - since most of it is perfectly unknown/unknowable to us today. Whatever we find 'researchable' is the portion we may have gotten a glimps of from SOMEWHERE - even that maybe strongly changed by those factors beyond our reach. Even the "non-living bodies" may "live" within a definition different from our obvious ways in meaning-formation and I have no claim whether they all resemble "MATTER" (i.e. the living, or not) - or not at all. We can research "science" - as Bruno (I think) said: the free doubt we can express on theories and their results (or similar) and most of our thinking is concentrated on a 'material world' - maybe 'physical world'. Mathematics is funny: it is outside such restrictions. Maybe Bruno is right to look for God in such connections. He may understand what fish talk <G> I don't. I don't want to regurgitate into items already discussed here lately. Best regards John M On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 04 Nov 2014, at 19:22, Terren Suydam wrote: > > > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I watched it over a few times seeing this simple, yet still fairly >> numerous 80,000 node + (multiple factors more synaptic connections) network >> in dynamic action…. How it lights up then relaxes back into lower activity; >> how activity in one region of the fish brain seems to trigger or be >> associated with other areas that light up with neural activity in a >> seemingly synchronized manner. >> >> >> Yes. But not too much, or the fish get epileptic problems. >> >> > Hi Bruno, > > Not to hijack the discussion... but I suspect that the extreme polarity we > see in American politics (and possibly elsewhere) is a symptom of a sort of > epileptic seizure of the "global brain", thanks to all the new connections > mediated by the internet. > > > Hi Terren, > > Normally, the more there are connections, the less will be the probability > of a seizure, thanks to that asynchronization, and actually chaotic > behavior of the nets. But if for some reason, large parts of the population > begin to use the net in some synchronous way (perhaps by getting too much > influenced by powerful adds), the net could undergo the equivalent of the > seizure. I allude to the works which have shown that both the cerebral > seizure of epilepsy, and the cardio-vascular attacks seems to involve a > transition between a chaotic regime (normal and usual) to a non chaotic > repetitive and synchronous regime. > > Social seizure might be more like wars, which might be what follows from > the polarity. I agree with you but the big difference here is in the > synchronous (epilepsy, military behavior, "current computer, also (!)) > versus asynchronous (animal/plant colonies, the net, brains, people in > peace time) than with the number of the connections. The more connections, > the best. that's also how cannabis helps for epilepsy, by augmenting the > probability of transmission between neurons, at the synapse level, (it acts > like oil on the Babbage's machine's wheels), and diminishes the probability > of the chaotic/non-chaotic transition. In "nature", chaos is a a symptom of > health. The Riemann hypothesis in numbers theory can be seen them as > looking if the prime number distribution is chaotic enough to prevent > arithmetical epilepsy and too much madness from the numbers behavior. > Eventually, similar questions should occur with the measure on the > computations. > > It seems to me that if QM is 100% correct, the bottom is "mad", or > "epileptic" at the start, and that there could be no quantum chaos, due to > linearity of both tensor product and evolution. How could the universal > unitary rotation be chaotic? of course, here too, things get quickly highly > non linear in the partial trace, or the internal relatives view, so much > that people appears and believe in taxes and death. Like in arithmetic, > things are in the views from inside. With computationalism we have to > explain that from the internal states accessible by the machines/numbers. > > QM really looks like the solution of the body part of the mind body > problem, but computationalism forces us to prove that it should be the only > solution possible. By QM I mean the basic postulate of quantum mechanics > (without collapse). > > Then the mind is explained by the fact that most intensional variants > splits into the communicable and the non communicable. > > All universal machine looking inward get frustrated by developing more > knowledge than communicable knowledge. That's why, I think, we cannot avoid > poetry, music, arts, to attempt to make people relive things close to what > they live but cannot communicate. > > Bruno > > > Terren > > >> >> >> Fascinating. It looks like one of Telmo's graph, with an observable >> dynamics. >> Those transparent animals reminds me of the planar boolean graph of the >> MGA ... >> >> It makes me wonder if there are certain meta behaviors that large highly >> networked and parallelized systems share in common. >> >> >> Yes. >> Most love bread and wine, and most hates taxes and death. >> >> >> >> Wonder if there are certain equations that could express these, if they >> do exist and again if such underlying common behavior exists if a knowledge >> of them can help designers create better systems. >> >> >> We can study machines with simple (but rich, löbian) beliefs, and then by >> imposing simply some self-referentially correct constraints, we can study >> the logic of their beliefs and variants in a way which does not depend of >> the implementation. So if neural highly parallel system are supposed to be >> "correct" or "meaningfull" in the appropriateness of their response with >> respect to some highly probable local "reality", then they will obey to the >> modal logical equations related to the logic of self-reference. Now, some >> of those modal relations can still be based on the mathematics of the 3p >> high level cellular automata, or other parallel implementatioons, and >> diverse representation theorem should not be excluded. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> For example, how do large wide area networks link up, i.e. what is the >> topology of their vertices? How do local area connections and sub networks >> interact with and become affected by other dynamic network activity that >> has a wide area scope and reach…. And the role that long distance vertices >> have to play in linking the large number of local groups into a cohesively >> functioning whole. >> >> >> It might be similar to the ways news circulate on facebook or the net. It >> might also be interesting to have map à la Telmo, managing the dynamics of >> the "news and gossips" on the social net. >> >> >> >> >> The dynamic functioning of highly parallelized, non-centrally directed >> (or timed either) wide area networks, characterized by having a plethora of >> regions of specialization, is something I find of particular interest. >> >> >> The ultimate reality is 0 dimensional, I think, assuming computationalism >> and occam, but of course the fun is not in the ultimate reality. It comes >> from inside where parallelism and dialog/exchange might play a crucial >> role. Now, computationalism as a TOE (arithmetic, computer science) has not >> yet a physical tensor product, so hard to see if the number dreams cohere >> enough to have such stable relationships. >> >> A brain is when amoeba colonies got the cables, but in arithmetic, we are >> not yet so advanced. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> -Chris >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [ >> mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Paul King >> *Sent:* Monday, September 08, 2014 3:23 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Fish can communicate and UNDERSTAND each other! >> >> >> http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2014/09/08/when-your-preys-in-a-hole-and-you-dont-have-a-pole-use-a-moray/ >> >> >> I told you that most animals are less stupid than we might think :) >> >> Stupidity grows with competence. With a big brain and agile hands, you >> *can* blow up the planet. >> >> Intelligence if of type <>t. You have <>t -> <> ~<>t. Consistency >> entails the consistency of inconsistency.It is the basic roots of all our >> human and living-being problems. I think. >> >> I think that we can teach a planaria to move in a virtual environment, >> and this could be handy to study simple natural neural net. And copy them. >> Even for planaria (thousand of neurons, only 19 optical neuron entries) we >> might copy them a long time before having a mathematical specification of >> the global functioning. The extreme regeneration power of the planaria is >> also helpful in the study of brain development. >> >> http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Planaria_nervous_system >> >> or >> >> http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/363/1500/2071.full >> >> >> n neuron machines can only support mathematical specification for m >> neuron machines when m is much less than n. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Kindest Regards, >> >> Stephen Paul King >> >> Senior Researcher >> >> Mobile: (864) 567-3099 >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://www.provensecure.us/ >> >> >> “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of >> the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain >> information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and >> exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as >> attorney work product. 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