yeah - this is a really original and very intelligent short story that explores the event of an civilization on the rise, that is connected by a more advanced civilization, but that sadly went the wrong way about 50-100 years before, effectively destroying its robust knowledge and societies, for certain, but delayed due to the enormous prosperity and energy surplus built by their ancestors, while that stockpile of 'fat' was burned to keep everything running. And still in that period, with a few decades left to run, when contact was made with that less advanced civilization, but still going strong, still going the right way.
How does the less advanced civilization possibly survive something like that? Great story. Lot's of food for thought relative to everything real in our lives in our time. Good story. Well spotted...you have an eye for quality over commonplace flap. On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 10:54:16 PM UTC, Jason wrote: > From Douglas Jone's short story ( http://frombob.to/you/aconvers.html ): > > > But suppose it *were* possible to create physical universes like yours > within an appropriately specified computational universe. What could you > say about the origin of the universe then? > > Very little, actually. Why? Because all general-purpose computers are > equivalent. If it is possible to perform this "computation" within any > * one *computational universe, then there are an* infinite* number of > computational universes in which this "computation" is performed. If you > were to try to follow the chain of causality back past the origin of your > physical universe, you would find an infinite number of causes. > > These are all *deep, deep* questions. We have been thinking about them, > and doing experiments, for a very long time. Our mathematicians have > *proven* certain things... I’m sorry, I have to be very careful about > what I say here. There is the very real possibility of inducing cardiac > arrest in certain people if I say too much. So let me say some vague things: > > There exists an object, a mathematical object, which has certain > properties. For reasons that should be obvious, there is no general > agreement on what the best name for this object is, so for the sake of > convenience, let’s just call it The Object. > > Your world, that is, the entire universe that you can observe, is an > infinitesimal part of that Object. And so is mine. And so is *every > universe that can possibly exist.* And everything else that can exist, > whether or not you would call it a universe. All of Mathematics is inside > that Object. And the various parts of that Object are somehow connected > together. > > We expend a considerable amount of effort attempting to deduce the > properties of that Object. In a sense, we are Exploring it. > > As I said before, we are Explorers, and we are exploring Everything. And > exploring the nature of the connections between the various parts of The > Object is the most fundamental kind of exploration there is. And some of > the most interesting kinds of connections are related to *Consciousness.* > > The Object is Eternal. It exists outside of time. It has no beginning and > no end; it simply *Is*. > > It contains many universes that have a property called Time, and you live > in one of them, and so do I. But these universes are Eternal too. The Time > within them is visible only from a particular point of view. > > Whenever we speak of creating a computational universe, or of creating a > physical universe, or of creating *anything*, we are not really speaking > of *creation*; we are really speaking of *making a connection*. Making a > connection between different parts of The Object. > > The parts are already there. They have always been there. And we don’t > really make the connection; the connection was always there too. We just > *discover > what is already there*. In other words, we just *become aware of it*. > > So whenever we think we’re creating something, this is just a vanity of > the ego, which exists within Time. Everything is already there, within The > Object. > > > > > *B: *What do you mean, *the *Afterlife? Apparently, each of us gets an > infinite number of different ones, simultaneously. And this doesn’t just > happen when you die. It happens to you all the time. > > In the last five minutes, you have split into an uncountable number of > different versions of yourself, each one in a different universe. And some > of those versions of yourself have found themselves in universes that are > very different from the one you all shared just over five minutes ago. Just > because you don’t recall ever experiencing a discontinuity that big, > doesn’t mean that it never happens to you. > > The Object contains all possible computational universes, with all > possible initial conditions. So there are an infinite number of > computational universes which contain, as part of their initial conditions, > *You *as you exist at this precise instant. And this instant too. And all > of the other instants of your life. > > And in precisely zero percent of those universes, which is to say an > infinite number of them, you will find yourself in a world like the one I > live in, the Realm of Possibilities. Where you will have freedom, and > infinite choices, and immortality. Where you can visit worlds of invention, > and live innumerable lives. Where you can follow, for a time, the paths of > other Souls. > > Of course, in the vast majority of those universes, you will find yourself > completely alone. But nevertheless, it can be shown that there are an > infinite number of universes that will also contain all of your friends and > loved ones. Even the ones who are already dead in your world. > > And we can take this even further. It can be shown that there exist an > infinite number of universes that each contain almost *Everyone!* > > You see, The Object contains the *Continuum of Souls. *It is a connected > set, with a frothy, fractal structure, of rather high dimensionality. The > Continuum contains an infinite number of Souls, *all* Souls in fact, and > an infinite number of them are *You.* Or at least, close enough to being > *You* so that nobody could tell the difference. Not even *You.* > > And the Continuum also contains an infinite number of souls that are *almost > You*. And an infinite number that are sort of *You. *And because it is a > *Continuum,* and because there is really no objective way to tell which > one is really *You, *then any method one uses to try to distinguish > between *You* and *non-You *will produce nothing but *illusion. *In a > sense, there is only one *You, *and it is *Everyone.* > > Of course, *You* can tell which one is you, can’t you? Or can you? > > > I saw some old posts in the archive on this list by a "Doug Jones", does > anyone remember him? > > Jason > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. 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