> > > *From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto: > everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *John Clark > *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2015 7:19 PM > *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Interesting speculation: Could an advanced industrial > civilization emerge again from a post-collapse earth? > > > > On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> I side with Matt Ridley where the wealthier people are, the more > concerned about the environment.they become. > > > You'd think they would, if they were rational, but I haven't yet seen > any evidence for this. Plenty for the reverse, unfortunately. > > Don't be ridiculous, upper middle class kids in western countries form thr > core of the modern environmental movement. A subsistence farmer with > children on the verge of starvation doesn't have the luxury of > contemplating the beauty of recycling or the evils of deforestation. >
I was thinking more of the people running large corporations. Oil companies are doing their best to ignore the environment and they aren't short of a bob or two. People who are subsistence farmers do their best to make sure they will have enough to eat in the future, e.g. by crop rotation. And don't make personal comments like "don't be ridiculous", it's rude and doesn't make what you're saying any more plausible. > > > >> The better the technology, the better easier it is on the land. > > > Depends what you mean by better. Artifical fertilisers and so on aren't > better for the land, nor is monoculture > > Then to hell with the land! You can't keep 7 billion people alive, much > less happy, without both artificial fertilizer and monoculture. And that is > what I mean when I say that modern environmentalists are not serious > people. > Well then we agree, the currently population and the agriculture that supports it aren't sustainable. > > I was given the impression that solar usage is currently increasing > exponentially. Have I been misinformed? > > Well.. Germany is by far the most aggressive country in perusing solar > electric power and they did this with huge government subsidies to the > solar industry payed for by German taxpayers. And what did the German > taxpayer get for all those billions they payed out? They got 6.5% of the > electricity Germany uses coming from solar and the highest electric rates > in Europe that's what they got. > > > A quick search revealed this... (Note the logarithmic scale, this is more or less an exponential price decrease.) (Obviously this drops in the winter! But even then the winter generation in 2013 exceeded the summer in 2011, if I read that correctly). (Hmm. Obviously just an investment bubble, it must burst soon... :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
