Bruno, Brent and Dr. Cabessa(?) The paper is a beautiful scientific work (I used to enjoy the style when young) and the tw reflections are commendable. I did not bother to carefully read/follow Dr. Cabessa's paper, it is a different world from my present mental occupation, browsed through it ad read the 2 remrks (mainly Bruno's) upon it. I do not abide by stale points as: - "let us agree about what we may call intelligence" - (as in AI) which in my opinion includes the little we think we know about it omitting the lion's share we don't.
Bruno: *To get the "super-Turing" power, you still need non recursive patterns in nature.* of course from the part we think we know as part of the Entirety. Then again I am weary in my agnosticism about math-logic (human) and the image we crry of "Nature". I cannot accept Bruno's RANDOM distinctions: agnostically (mine, that is) all random-deemed remarks are based on our missing knowledge of the source. (Remember: if there were 'random' happenings, there would be no math-based physics, not even 'math' with it's NOT-RANDOM 2+2=4). (2+2 = R?) The title pf the paper refers to 'neural networks' (nevermind the adjectives) - surely thinking about the little we think we know about such. We have a lot of scientific effort done on the 'neural' concept without discovering one basic feature of them: the *TOPICAL* distinction of the data evaluated about of their functions. The complexity of our 'topically diversified' mentality does not fit into our neuronal psych/ologic/iatric/-physi/ologic/cal evaluation measurements or neurologic explanations, all of mentality is a much used terra incognita. Even the domains of the brain - assigned to certain mental functions - do not include topical functions (or: mixtures of different ones). Accordingly I cannot say much about the mind-body problem, the MIND being mentality, the body our physical exploitation of information received from (poor) observation. MY phrase: "We THINK we know". Mind-body came out of Descartes' genius to escape from the Inquisition - by a SOUL substitute partnered with the BODY. Agnostically yours John Mikes On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 2:45 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 01 Mar 2016, at 04:59, Brent Meeker wrote: > > Bruno, what do you think of this paper? > > Brent > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > *The Super-Turing Computational Power of Plastic Recurrent Neural Networks* > > http://binds.cs.umass.edu/papers/2014_cabessa.pdf > > > > It is interesting. It might suggest an "easy" solution of the measure > problem of Digital Mechanism. > > To get the "super-Turing" power, you still need non recursive patterns in > nature. They suggest it might come from the quantum background, but > obviously, you get it also through the "random oracle" given by the FPI > (First Person Indeterminacy) on all computations (structured by the modal > logics). Such random information has a measure 1 (for the same reason that > we should bet the random "movie" in the iteration of self-multiplication on > all screen images---if you remember the iterated self-multiplication > thought experience). The normal worlds would come from nature exploiting > the (quantum, or computationalist (below the substitution level)) > randomness. > > Again, to solve the mind-body problem, such models of computation must be > extracted from the measure imposed by self-reference, but such type of > solution have some plausibility (more than many other more magical use of > Super-Turing (which are Turing + Turing's oracle). > > Is it plausibly usable by humans in AI some day? I am not an expert on > this, but I don't see why not. > > Bruno > > > > > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
