On 05 Mar 2016, at 01:43, Samiya Illias wrote:
Thank you for listening to the video. Appreciate the effort!
I am not a proponent of Evolution as it is popularly understood.
However, due to gaps in my knowledge, I do not make any assertions
for or against it.
My main point, on which I've based my Mission of the Messengers
series is verse 30 of chapter The Romans in the Quran, which states
that there should be NO CHANGE IN THE CREATION OF ALLAH. I
understand it to mean that humans must not tamper with the genetic
code.
Can human builds new molecules? Why stop at genetic? I have glasses,
is that not also a change in the creation of Allah.
They cannot improve it - they can only corrupt it! This is what
happened with Adam, and this is the grave sin audaciously committed
by the civilisations who were punished in the past!
We are at the brink of leap-frogging into our own destruction by
embracing the ideas of Eugenics, Transhumanism, Posthuman and
Posthumanism.
But all that is needed to explore the solar system and the galaxy and
expands ourselves in the glorious garden created by The Glass-of-Beer
(I hope you don't mind this slight vocabulary change which might help
some people in the list. By The Glass-of-beer, I mean the creator or
reason of whatever is existing).
The reason I shared Perry Marshall's work is because he also
understands that design at the genetic level is what creation is
about.
Ah. The Glass-of-Beer is the programmer of the DNA. But then It looks
like a jerk from another level of reality or just some alien, and it
is not clear if it has anything to do with the one pointed to in the
Bible and Quran. Also, who made the carbon atoms? Just the stars? Who
made the stars?
I feel like you *might* be a bit light in seeing The Glass-of-Beer as
a programmer, that is a task that can be done by any alien, or even
our descendants.
Also, people on this list, who might be prejudiced against my
religion or nationality, might be willing to pay more attention to
what Perry Marshall has to say.
I think we are pretty open in this list. As you know, my "prejudice"
is only on people who believe in the revelation of an other, where it
seems to me that revelation is something personal, and hardly
communicable. We can make theories, and discuss but no pretension of
truth (be it about the existence of a personal or an impersonal Glass-
of-Beer) should be made publicly.
Institutionalized religion is an handicap in the spiritual research.
I don't access your video link, so I looked at this one on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtTE6WXlMsU
I don't see any point where I would disagree, except I was thinking
that this was the orthodox view of evolution. I said it often Amoeba
knows the secret and are very clever, and that they are themselves
colony of bacteria, with internal and external virus and plasmids. I
like when Perry Marshall compares a plasmid with a USB stick. Like I
explain in the secret of the amoeba, I discovered the Turing Universal
'system" by reading the work of the french molecular biologist
François Jacob and Jacques Monod (on how a system of genes, the
lactose operon), and then in arithmetic in a book on Gödel's theorem.
But that is not an argument for intelligent design, it is an argument
that very simple things can already be very intelligent, and the
arithmetical reality if full of them. The Mandelbrot set illustrates
that, in some way. A very simple mathematical relation, the iteration
of f(z) = z^2 + c in the complex plane) leads to a local extreme
complexity and with varied degrees of harmony when c varies.
The-Glass-of-Beer created the Natural Numbers, and said "Nice!"
Then HE/IT/SHE told to the numbers to add, and when seeing the result
he said "Cool!"
Then HE/SHE/IT told the numbers to multiply, and when seeing the
result he said ... "Oops".
Why? because then he get the level where all those bacteria crops up
and change the creation all the time, leaving the ocean, leaving
earth, and get curious, and are never truly satisfied (when living).
I think The Glass-of-beer might be the ultimate thing on which the
machine can be angry at.
May be IT/SHE/HE should never have asked to the Numbers to multiply,
but I doubt this, the crashing and the pains is the price of
universality and "local immortality".
Of course all this is the discovery that addition+multiplication (+
some logic) is Turing universal, which entails that the truth about
those entities is never encapsulated in a complete theory. In fact
those entities can indeed change themselves, refute their mirror, and
this at many different levels and degrees of connexion.
As long as it helps people to think out of the box...
Interesting. But to sum up, I don't see an argument for Intelligent
design. Only an argument that bacteria are intelligent, in the simple
sense of being able to talk a universal language, when it is not
exploiting its own universality, notably by talking (exchanging
information) with each others, and structure their identity.
The rise of the cerebral system is "just" the invention of the cable
by amoebas. Some of our thought can be seen as the result of forum and
meta forum organized by the cells. There too, universal numbers
develops, physical and virtual, with many universal layers, and the
same at the "soft" level (in worst for the first person view as it is
confronted with the limit where the Unknown Glass-of-Beer lose
control, at least in their theology (science of truth (provable and
non provable) about oneself from the diverse points of view possible,
say).
Bruno
Samiya
On 05-Mar-2016, at 3:02 am, John Mikes <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Samiya, I am a poor video-watcher, my hearing deficiency does
not support well the comprehension of machine-speech (harmonics are
mixed up) yet I went through the video.
Evolution is not something WE (both) should embrace: if (your)
Allah created something, it should be perfect and final, not
subject to human (or other) engineering to approach (does it
really?) it's final - better - design.
In my views the word implies some teleological taste of getting
more and more perfect - towards some final(?) state (unpronounced/
disclosed).
What I see is a complexification in Nature, not haphazardous, not
random, leading to more ínvolved(?) formats on and on.
We can observe such in the so called 'living'world we have access to.
Mutations are pressure-involved by (mostly unknown/able) factors in
the Entirety, not complying to Darwinism (he was a genious, who
directed the human mind towards changes for perfection i.e. more
complex features).
Scientific is a word I do not bow to. The content changed so much
over the millennia and we foresee it changing further, so I
consider it a PRESENT state-of-the-thinking (however very usedul in
creating our technology).
Still agnostically yours
John Mikes
On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Samiya Illias
<[email protected]> wrote:
Please see: http://cosmicfingerprints.com/origin-of-life-video/
PZ Myers - Perry Marshall debate: http://cosmicfingerprints.com/pz-myers/
Samiya
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