On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> > Well, if we assume computationalism, Carroll's equation does not solve the > mind-body problem. > Nobody has the answer to the mind body problem because nobody knows exactly what the question is. > >> >> The one problem I have with Carroll's book is that he talks a lot about >> "free will" without giving us even a hint at what that term is supposed to >> mean; tell me what it means and I'll tell you if human beings have that >> property or not, and I'll tell you i >> f >> a roulette wheel or a Cuckoo clock >> has that property too. >> > > > > You have yourself propose a definition, > I said I have only seen 2 definitions of free will that were not gibberish: 1) "Free Will" is a ASCII sequence that represents a noise some homicides like to make with their mouth. 2) "Free Will" is the inability to always predict what you will do before you do it even if the environment is predictable. By this definition your computer has free will because when you ask it to multiply 96854 by 79446 it doesn't know what answer it will tell you until it does so, and it will only do so when it finishes the calculation. > > > Free-will is when someone is self-determined. > Then if we have free will our senses are redundant as they provide useless information about things outside ourselves which has nothing to do with how we behave. And if we are self determined and our senses don't effect our behavior then why did we evolve senses? I don't know about you but I am *not* self-determined, if I see a brick wall directly in front of me I don't keep walking and crash into it. > > > A kid told me that it is the ability to eat chocolate even before dinner, > If the kid couldn't see where the chocolate was he couldn't eat it, and if the kid couldn't taste it he wouldn't even want to eat it. > > Adding randomness or non-causal-ness, can only lower free-will. > Tell me what "free-will" means and I'll tell you if the above is true or not. And non-causal-ness and randomness are the same thing, so if it wan't random then it happened due to cause and effect. You're either a cuckoo clock or a roulette wheel because there are only 2 possibilities, event X happened due to cause and effect OR it did not happen due to cause and effect. > > The animals plants, which might react only instinctively from immediate > measurement might have much less free-will than dogs, gorilla and humans. > Tell me what "free-will" means and I'll tell you if the above is true or not. > > > In moral, free-will is needed to get a notion of personal responsibility > No it is not. A serial murderer leaves death and grief in his wake so if civilization is to continue he must be punished to prevent him from murdering again and as a deterrent to prevent others from doing similar things; and that would be true regardless of what that odd term "free will" means. > > All judges use the free-will notion to distinguish the 4 following cases > of a man killing a woman with his car: > 1) seemingly because the woman jumped on the road in front of him, and he > could not avoid her, > The man should *not* be punished because doing so would *not *prevent similar occurrences in the future. > 2) seemingly because he decided to finish all bottles of wine at the party > before leaving it with his car, and then drove like a nut. > The man *should* be punished because doing so *would* prevent similar occurrences in the future, > > 3) seemingly because he hated her, as she decided to break with him, and > in rage use his car to kill her "purposefully". The man *should* be punished because doing so *would *prevent similar occurrences in the future. > 4) seemingly because he is a psychopath and seems to appreciate killing > woman in a way or another, for sexual pleasure. > The man *should* be punished because doing so* would *prevent similar occurrences in the future . A nd that would be true regardless of what that odd term "free will" means. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.