On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 2:36:19 PM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 02 Feb 2017, at 20:38, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > > > > On 2/2/2017 9:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> > >> I do think the greek get the "correct" mystical insight, which is > >> that Truth is bigger than Reason. > > > > It's also bigger than logic > > Of course. Reason by itself is already bigger than logic. All theories > are bigger than (first order) logic. > > > > > - something which every scientist and engineer knows. > > Engineers? I guess so. But scientists? Perhaps, but not so much the > Aristotelian believer, who are not aware that even just elementary > arithmetic is not unifiable in a complete theory.
Inform them then perhaps instead of whining about it? Or is it that you expect people to do the hard work of presenting your work because you're too busy lecturing an internet list? > Many scientists are > just unaware of the impact of Gödel's discovery, and have sometimes a > reductionist conception of machine, numbers, and finite things in > general. Oh no! We are doomed. Everybody plug Bruno's writings immediately! Sell your houses, there is a world to save. > It took Gödel's ingenuity to kill the the Leibniz-Hilbert > Dream of making the base of mathematics consistent and simple. For > many, when they understand this, they realize for the first time that > there is a mathematical reality beyond the theories which try to study > that reality. > > For many yes, but for many others not. Some ask: ok, but what good does this bring? > > > > It is only mathematicians and logicians who think all knowledge can > > be reached by reasoning. > > OK. > > But you need to make such mistake to understand that they are > *scientific* mistake. Today, many scientists continue to do that > mistake with respect to arithmetic. You're repeating yourself. Approach "the many scientists" more directly then. > That the arithmetical reality is > not even axiomatizable (no complete theory) is quite very often badly > understood. When working in the interdisciplinary domain, it is better > to assume that nothing is obvious, and put all cards on the table. Now it's interdisciplinary that nobody recognizes arithmetical reality to not be axiomatizable, the next day it's a mathematicalism, on another day it's a point in theology, on another day we have the amazing result of fuzzy physics, then it's only a toy theology, then everybody lacks modesty, *but you evade the question: how does all this do and feature in peoples' lives?* Even for scientists: they would all become magically modest and not evil, upon realizing technical points such as that A.R. is not axiomatizable? *Without a meaningful relation to peoples' lives, even if just on some theological level, this discourse uses scientific environs to justify purely personal mysticisms.* I fail to see evidence of such a relation nor evidence that there is an end to your need to justify what the world has misunderstood. The latter feels like a certainty, which does not fit well with the modest approach you keep bragging about, attacking in principle all scientists who don't listen to your sermonizing without clearly naming or engaging them. PGC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
